Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests have collapsed

Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by heurist on Sunday March 14, 2021 @09:25PM (#26461559)

People lived in the north prior to the invention of electricity, so it's possible. Maybe more difficult now due to the quantity of firewood that would be needed with a larger population? Architecture (and dense urban development) plays an important role in electricity-free livability across various climate conditions. Some buildings work well in the cold, some work well in the heat. That's not to say you as an individual can address these problems, but society as a whole can design urban systems which support low-energy living in even difficult conditions.

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by falcolas on Sunday March 14, 2021 @09:32PM (#26461604)

> but society as a whole can design urban systems which support low-energy living in even difficult conditions.

What's the forcing function? It's already been proven that a global climate crisis is not enough to move society. It's not profitable enough to convince corporations to do it. The 0.1% have no cause to do it; even the humanitarians among that group have much better investments they can make.

EDIT: Also, in the past, living in the north without electricity was managed by burning wood and coal. Given the significant increase in population the impact to the environment of burning all that would be irrecoverable on its own.

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by bumby on Sunday March 14, 2021 @11:42PM (#26462406)

>It's not profitable enough to convince corporations to do it.

Can policy not make it profitable? It seems like regulation can be a means of creating market incentives. It worked well for leaded gas, I tend to think a carbon tax/market may work

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by bilegeek on Monday March 15, 2021 @01:17AM (#26462844)

At best, like leaded gas, it will take about 30 years, which in this case is far, FAR too late.

At worst, there is no way that anything approaching that sort of regulation will ever fly in today's political system. Period.

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by lovecg on Monday March 15, 2021 @04:40AM (#26463730)

Seems to be working quite well in Europe [0]. There are reasons to be optimistic.

[0] https://www.economist.com/finance-and-economics/2021/02/24/p...

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by Robotbeat on Monday March 15, 2021 @12:34PM (#26468147)

People lived in the north without electricity but they've NEVER lived in the north without fire. And there aren't enough trees in the north. Iceland (for instance) cut all of theirs down for heating and other uses. Similar to the British Isles. They turned to burning peat and coal to stay warm (etc). Others have mentioned whale blubber.

Unless you live near a hot springs, electricity is actually the best we've got for staying warm in the north with the least carbon emissions. Nuclear, wind, hydro, or geothermal are all valid options for producing this electricity in the North. Probably in combination and probably with some storage (batteries plus occasional hydrogen?) and heatpumps to increase the efficiency. So in fact, USE electricity.

In the Global South, solar reigns supreme as far as the least expensive energy source.

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Re:Satellite imagery shows Northern California kelp forests ... by nradov on Monday March 15, 2021 @12:00PM (#26467594)

Sure northerners can hunt whales and burn the blubber to stay warm just like the indigenous people used to do.

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