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Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by djrogers on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @09:31PM (#26419485)
I’ve been hearing for decades about how great and cheap prefab homes are, so when I recently started looking I to adding a second home on my lot (~800sq ft or so), I looked into it.

What I found was very disappointing - costs were the same or higher when compared to a custom unit built in-place, and the options for style, layout, and size were much less.

There is some advantage in speed, but at this size it’s a matter of a few months difference- not enough for the trade offs.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by chasil on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @09:44PM (#26419567)
The market leader of prefab homes in the U.S. (afaik) is Clayton Homes, a subsidiary of Berkshire Hathaway, "run" by Warren Buffet.

Clayton Homes was in the news earlier this decade for abusive loan practices. They are likely best avoided, and I say this as a Berkshire stockholder.

https://money.com/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-clayton-...

I have been to Omaha for a few shareholders' meetings, and I've toured a Clayton prefab home erected in the convention center.

I do like the aesthetics of the Japanese prefab home that is in the article, but I cannot imagine anyone using the glass shower or tub that open to the entire neighborhood in this picture (to say nothing of having it behind my desk):

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/dwell-ugc/photos/60633913...

Glass in the shower needs far too much cleaning anyway, so that really isn't a good idea from several perspectives.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by J_cst on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:08AM (#26421169)
Glass shower can be kept clean and perfect in 30 seconds using this cheap tool just after taking the shower:

https://www.arredobagno360.it/media/catalog/product/cache/1/...

That's my personal experience :)

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by vincnetas on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:51AM (#26421442)
And if you lazy, water softner can also help you keep the glass clean. That's my preference.
Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by oh_sigh on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @11:54PM (#26420409)
This doesn't even look like a house to me. It kind of looks like a law firm's office with a bathtub inexplicably placed in the middle.
Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by baybal2 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @05:05AM (#26422301)
> I do like the aesthetics of the Japanese prefab home that is in the article, but I cannot imagine anyone using the glass shower or tub that open to the entire neighborhood in this picture (to say nothing of having it behind my desk):

Some apartment buildings in China have bathrooms on balconies. Try taking shower in -5C°

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by pjc50 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:47AM (#26421776)
That tub has to be an architect's stunt, you couldn't possibly use it. Especially as the house doesn't seem to have curtains or blinds either.
Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by bin_bash on Thursday March 11, 2021 @01:12AM (#26420838)
it might be "smart glass" that can frost over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrtfsSNGPKc
Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by ungamedplayer on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:45AM (#26423385)
Glass showers are -extrememely- common in Australia.
Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by bluGill on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:04AM (#26424707)
They are common in the US, but they are contained in a bathroom that has solid walls. I can't think of any culture where people would be comfortable with a bathroom layout that allows anyone to just look in. That limits this bathroom to small apartments for singles (or couples with no kids) who don't entertain, and from what I know of Japanese culture I'm not sure it would catch on there.

As a marketing effort though it makes sense. You can show the whole thing off at a show to someone walking by and anyone who is interested can imagine how it would look with solid walls.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by oasisbob on Friday March 12, 2021 @02:10PM (#26439607)
My most recent home here in Seattle was built with glass showers. The house was a three-story townhome, with the master shower up top, "overlooking" the stairwell.

The second floor bathroom is split into two - a toilet on one end of the hallway, a glass shower on the other end made by boxing off the end of the hallway with a sliding-glass door and large windows. Both sets of glass are frosted.

It's clear that the architect used the showers to help with lighting - the side of the building with the showers has the best exposure, and by keeping them translucent all the way into the living space, the hallways, stairs, and master bedroom are bathed in natural light.

Despite the frosted glass, the showers do have a slight exhibitionist feel at first. The second floor shower has a roll-down blind on the outside, primarily for guests.

The third floor shower has partial window treatments, which provides enough privacy given the layout of the neighborhood.

We thought it might be a bit uncomfortable; however, it works out well, and almost all guests have declined to use the blinds. I was surprised too.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by NotPavlovsDog on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:19AM (#26421245)
What we haven't solved in the value creation equation is the people factor, whether in software, construction or medicine.

It does get easier to address at scale. When applied to construction, the at-scale approach used to increase predictability is primarily available through a) pre-fab construction under conditions approaching control b) repeat buildings, the classic cookie-cutter houses. There's a reason why they're popular with developers.

A custom house will take longer and cost more than the estimate, on average. There is research on this in both small-scale and large-scale construction.

As a personal anecdote, I & partner built our own permanent dwelling (check my posts). It went over time and over budget, and even then, we had to compromise on features.

Don't forget that central heating /AC and "proper" insulation are not a standard feature in Japanese construction. Neither are cellars nor sound-proofing. Their plumbing is rarely winterized, and they often have the classic approach of kitchen on one side of wall, bathroom on the other. That's one bathroom, and a much simpler plumbing setup than multi-units popular in Europe or the US. These are just some factors in a long list that significantly simplify projects in Japan and make pre-fab a strong contender.

The Japanese consumer expects less and pays the same if not more.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by jac_no_k on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:26AM (#26421651)
Owner of a customized pre-fab (!?) home here in the Kanto (Tokyo) area.

Homes in Hokkaido area, where it gets quite cold in winter, have good insulation. If one is building a custom house in Japan from construction company that does pre-fab, ask to see the catalog for houses in Hokkaido. It will have features such as double paned windows and venting systems with heat exchangers. I'm the only one in the neighborhood with the heat exchanger setup.

Regarding central air versus having a compressor for each room. My previous house in the same area had central air and in hindsight, it wasn't an economical choice. It made all the rooms drafty and we were constantly fighting with low humidity. The current house has it's own compressor for each room and along with the ventilation provided by the heat exchanger, just running two units downstairs is enough for the whole house.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by NotPavlovsDog on Thursday March 11, 2021 @03:48AM (#26421777)
Have you looked into price comparisons for homes in Japan vs Europe or the US? Something off-the-napkin such as "an average salary person would need 30 years to pay off an average unit" or the like?

One thing that turned me off property in Germany was the amount of regulation and inspections involved, which can also be a problem in US areas with aggressive localities bent on generating revenue from homeowners. This, in my estimates, increased prices and made home ownership less attractive (for me).

In my pedestrian look-up of prices for homes in Japan, when accounting for salaries, they were comparable in salary-life-years spent, or higher, to US or Europe. What is your experience?

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by jac_no_k on Thursday March 18, 2021 @10:41PM (#26509739)
I used to live in the southern California area in the United States. I made a bit better then you average salaryman. Home prices varied wildly but I was able to get a 30 year loan for a new construction house. I did benefit from for low interest rate and liberal lending practices.

In Japan, I make nearly double what an average salaryman. This made getting a 35 year mortgage possible. I spend about 30% of my income on the home, its taxes, and upkeep. The current house is customized to higher spec then what is typically offered.

Like many places, prices vary quite a bit. This home was purchased during the "before" times and my commute into central Tokyo was between 90 to 120 minutes, by train or bicycle. Land prices is a quarter of what it is close to the center, about half compared to places within an hours commute time. For location reference, my station is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haruhino_Station

The building itself is relatively cheap for the quality. I was able to spec it out before it was constructed. Most pre-built houses do skimp on insulation, ventilation systems, and typically have primitive co-generation power.

The curious thing about Japan is that buildings depreciate to zero in 30 years time. Land prices are stagnant or loses value the further out from major metropolitan areas. I had to get a realtor estimate on the house, and in the four years since the house was constructed, I would only be able to sell for about 80% of what I purchased it for.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by pezezin on Thursday March 11, 2021 @08:57AM (#26424041)
> Homes in Hokkaido area, where it gets quite cold in winter, have good insulation.

Define "good insulation". I live in Aomori prefecture and most houses here have terrible insulation, and when I visited Hokkaido it didn't look much better. There is a reason why home centers sell lots of different materials to insulate the house yourself, because the construction itself is awful.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by jac_no_k on Thursday March 18, 2021 @10:58PM (#26509807)
I think it depends if the house was pre-built or meant for rentals. I had the unfortunate experience of buying a used pre-built house in the Tokyo area and it was terrible. Every room vented directly outside, windows were single pane with bare framing, and it felt like it had only token insulation. Same with rental apartments, with the only benefit being small places.

The builders I've worked with; Tokyu Homes and Seksui House build all over Japan and have a catalog of options catered for each region. ie: Kanto (Tokyo area), Tohoku (Aomori), Hokkaido, etc. The contents of the catalog are surprisingly different. For example, triple pane glass and heat exchangers for ventilation is not shown in Kanto catalog.

My ex-partner was an architect and I have a strong interest in things mechanical. Along with experience of having multiple homes built for us and with a western attitude, we were able get a livable house that's fairly efficient (for a Western lifestyle).

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by brigandish on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:35AM (#26421319)
> Don't forget that central heating /AC and "proper" insulation are not a standard feature in Japanese construction.

A recent Reddit thread of non-Japanese immigrants (I won't link it in case it brings blow back for them) had this (insulation specifically but heating more generally) as the top complaint about living in Japan.

Aluminium window frames… I curse them.

Edit: typo

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by Qwertious on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:05AM (#26424734)
>Aluminium window frames… I curse them.

What? Why?

High embodied energy, terrible insulation, and I don't picture aluminium as a cheap material.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by fomine3 on Thursday March 11, 2021 @07:09PM (#26430679)
Traditionally wood was used for window frames but it couldn't provide enough amount for building after WW2.. Aluminum is better than wood for durability and air sealing but stupid for insulation. Now all major window frame manufacturer is aluminum industry so that's why transition to resin window frames is hard..
Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by wesleywt on Thursday March 11, 2021 @02:52AM (#26421449)
The Japanese have a culture of tearing down and rebuilding houses after a few decades. So a prefab building makes perfect sense. There is no reason to build a prefab with aircon and insulation. Here in South Africa, most middle class houses don't have either, despite being "fairly" rich (we have massive inequality so middle class and up are at the level of Canadians, while the majority of lower class income are at the level of the DRC).
Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by DubiousPusher on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @10:04PM (#26419712)
Not sure where you're looking but modulars are definitely cheaper in the Western US. Many off the freeway modular dealers can get you a three bed for under 200k. They are not attractive though. Clayton, Champion, Commodore , etc fall into this category.

If you step up to a higher end manufacturer you end up paying about the price of a site built but with much nicer finishes than the comparable site built. Method, Ideabox, Timberland, etc fall into this category.

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by bluGill on Thursday March 11, 2021 @10:00AM (#26424656)
Custom homes use a lot of standardized parts. A 2x4 is the same in Width and Depth in all the US. One of the most common lengths to buy them in is 92 5/8 - which is the perfect size when you have a 2x4 on the bottom of a wall and 2 on the top for the standard sized wall boards to fit, thus saving a lot of labor cutting each board to length. If you want a taller wall, you can also buy 104 5/8s lengths, and there is wallboard that is a bit wider so it fits exactly. If you want a wall height other than those two you will pay extra because there is a lot more labor.

Most custom houses should be looked at as custom kits. The standard gives a lot of room for the types of customization people actually want to do, while not a lot of room for the types people do anyway. Round towers look nice, but in practice they waste a lot of space compared to rectangular because nothing fits either inside or outside. (Castles went to round towers when cannons got strong enough to to knock down flat walls, for a while round was enough better in defense as to be worth the downsides)

Re:What We Can Learn from Japanese Prefab Homes by tired-dev on Wednesday March 10, 2021 @09:49PM (#26419612)
Yeah, I've really never been impressed with the quality of any prfab house I've toured. Especially looking at any built at least 20 years ago, they just seem so cheap compared to all the comps, and ironically never seemed much less expensive.