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Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by fwsgonzo on Thursday March 04, 2021 @12:41PM (#26345415)
What's the downside? I don't have a clue about these things.
Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by jariel on Thursday March 04, 2021 @12:50PM (#26345542)
It looks incredibly bad for nations to be playing 'vaccine nationalism' and banning exports of anything, especially life medicine, to other nations. It looks possibly very petty and incompetent. The vaccine maker will claim that their commercial obligations are to Australia, the EU is literally overriding commercial deals for nationalist reasons, very bad, and exposes their own failure to negotiate a good deal, especially on home turf.

The only upside is the PR to some local citizens who want to feel that 'The EU is doing their job protecting us'.

Successful nations are not resorting to this. The EU is way behind and it's a really look.

The UK is 33% vaccinated and is going to fully open up in a few months, once they are full-blown open, then the clock is ticking on Von Der Leyen's job and the credibility of the EU because every day that goes by while US/UK are full steam ahead is a slap in the face. If the EU is 6 months behind fully opening up then the consequences - were there actually any way for EU citizens to do anything about it - would be severe. Since the EU political system is shielded from populism like 'elections' and certainly 'referendums' they're probably safe. I suggest the elites will band together and put all the blame on Von Der Leyen. But it may not come to that, production is ramping up it may not be so bad.

This is the biggest crisis of our era so the headline optics are really important, and the underlying materiality of lock-downs are felt by every citizen in the country. Imagine 60 million people under duress, looking next door, seeing how everything is open and happy? That's a political nightmare.

The vaccination data is here [1]

At the current rate, UK is open in a few months, US a bit thereafter. EU won't be able to open for technically 2 years (!!) so it's going to really depend on how vaccinations ramp up. Every politician is sweating.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Edit: I should add, Italy blocking shipments to Australia is a completely different kind of communication than for example Trump, saying, earlier in the pandemic that he would 'prioritize Americans'. The later is a tough, but reasonable sounding policy. But actively blocking shipments especially when agreements have been made - it's bad. Honestly, if it were a remotely 'poorer country' like Brazil or whatever ... it would be even worse.

It's just bad however you cut it. The headline you want is 'we'll be done by August' etc..

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by Isinlor on Thursday March 04, 2021 @01:02PM (#26345749)
UK banned export of some 100 medicines that could be possible treatment for COVID early last year.

USA never intended to export vaccines under Trump administration, Biden is upholding it.

The only difference really is that our EU politicians had big words, but when the rubber hit the read went the same route as everyone else.

To be honest, EU politicians were naive.

We should have banned all exports very early on as everyone else did and then graciously allow exports on case by case basis to the level we have now.

It would have been a lot better optics, but the same practical outcome.

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by fermienrico on Thursday March 04, 2021 @04:09PM (#26348358)
> USA never intended to export vaccines under Trump administration, Biden is upholding it.

As they should. Why would you expect domestic citizens being deprioritized?

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by jariel on Thursday March 04, 2021 @01:12PM (#26345928)
The EU is not 'behind' because of it's naive generosity to other nations.

An export ban would have made hardly any difference as production would have probably been aligned around the fact.

The EU is not 'naive' - it is 'failing' perhaps the most important test since it's inception.

Being a 'few months behind' US/UK/China etc. will mostly ok, but if it's more than 6 months behind, then this failure will resonate for decades.

Fair or not fair, right or wrong, the facts will be immaterial to the headlines that will ring for a very, very long time.

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by Isinlor on Thursday March 04, 2021 @01:51PM (#26346480)
EU is not distributing vaccines. This is up to the states.

For example Denmark is doing quite well, but Bulgaria is doing quite bad.

So to repeat, healthcare is not a responsibility of the EU.

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by jariel on Thursday March 04, 2021 @02:33PM (#26347076)
The end-point of distribution is besides the point. It's not part of the discussion and is not even a problem anywhere really.

The EU is definitely the entity responsible for acquiring the vaccines on behalf of nation states - this is what is failing.

The 'delay' is not due to Denmark inability to field nurses, it's in the EU's ability to secure product - for whatever reason.

And in the end, it won't matter. If the EU ends up 6 months behind other nations 'there will be no excuses'.

I think that they'll probably catch up, but there's a real possibility they don't.

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by tonyedgecombe on Thursday March 04, 2021 @04:19PM (#26348503)
The EU is definitely the entity responsible for acquiring the vaccines on behalf of nation states

Why? This isn't something the EU normally does.

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by jariel on Thursday March 04, 2021 @05:25PM (#26349332)
For COVID, the EU decided to band together as a strategic manoeuvre to procure as a single entity.

The approach actually makes sense, if everyone was acting rationally and competently it would work.

But they screwed it up.

Everyone is clamouring about the 'new world order' and 'pivot to Asia' and wondering what the 'Brexit' result would be ... and the optics of this are 'EU in last place'. It's just a bad look, and it's an event that will ring through time with long lasting effects, at least in 'hearts and minds'. There's still chance to catch up however.

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by tonyedgecombe on Friday March 05, 2021 @04:42AM (#26354908)
That doesn't answer the question.
Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by clort on Thursday March 04, 2021 @01:24PM (#26346103)
I don't think the UK is 33% vaccinated by the way. The UK might have given a half dose to 33% of the population and this might do quite a lot to dent the severity of the disease and its spread but this is not full vaccination by any means. Further down on the page that you linked, there is a chart showing rates of full vaccination which says that the UK is 1.3% fully vaccinated.
Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by g_p on Thursday March 04, 2021 @02:11PM (#26346755)
Based on the UK's approach to "first dose first", and the results of their early data from those who have been vacinated with one dose, the results are promising.

Given the public policy goal is to prevent hospitals being overwhelmed due to admissions with the virus (and the commensurate decline into ICU on a ventilator etc.) the vaccine is doing two things - firstly it's reducing the number of people catching the virus. Secondly, it's reducing the number of people being hospitalised with Covid. That then has a follow-on impacat that there's a reduction in deaths (though that data isn't complete yet for the AZ vaccine, given timeframes, and the need to wait long enough before measuring mortality outcomes).

With good results from a single dose, even after a period of time, in a sense these people are "vaccinated". If the UK needs to re-vaccinate everyone with a booster twice once every 180 days (for example), that's "only" 378k vaccine doses per day, and they can deliver at well above that rate. If the supply increases as projected, there is potential for as many as 4m doses a week to be getting administered by April, with everyone having their first dose by June.

Pressure is then reduced on hospitals (as long as the vaccine is effective against prevalent strains) as you roll out subsequent doses - the 1st dose figures seem promising.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-show-vaccines-re... for over 80s

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3790399 for healthcare workers under 65

Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by kemiller2002 on Thursday March 04, 2021 @12:51PM (#26345558)
People/Politicians etc. have a long memory. If you think of it as a "treat others how you would like to be treated," eventually it will come down to a situation where Italy or some other EU nation will need assistance. In a "my people first" scenario, it's always easy to find a reason why you should not help someone else while justifying that your aid is needed by your people. By blocking the vaccine, they are setting themselves up to be retaliated against sometime in the future.
Re:EU blocks export of AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines to Aust... by heavenlyblue on Thursday March 04, 2021 @12:58PM (#26345677)
> have a long memory

I would argue generally it’s agreed that humans have short memory.