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Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by read_if_gay_ on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:34AM (#26342132)
If you're going to question the validity of an assertion please provide more than just a counterassertion.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by gitrog on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:36AM (#26342148)
You could say that to GP who just dismissed a published study without actually taking on any of the claims made therein.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by read_if_gay_ on Thursday March 04, 2021 @09:06AM (#26342590)
They questioned the methodology specifically. So it's not just an assertion.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by tekknik on Thursday March 04, 2021 @09:14AM (#26342705)
...of a published study. The only reason people are defending GP now is because the subject is BTC.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by read_if_gay_ on Thursday March 04, 2021 @09:22AM (#26342792)
Just because it's a published study does not mean it's infallible. Please see my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26342411
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by tekknik on Thursday March 04, 2021 @09:28AM (#26342858)
Your counter is just as flawed as you have no way to verify any miners are using renewables. Power transmission is a thing (California does it) and if we weren’t using the power to mine BTC it could be used to power other things. Again, people are only arguing for BTC on this site because it’s hacker news, nothing else.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by read_if_gay_ on Thursday March 04, 2021 @09:36AM (#26342953)
> Your counter is just as flawed as you have no way to verify any miners are using renewables.

Then any "published study" on this topic is automatically going to be flawed as well?

Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by tekknik on Friday March 05, 2021 @09:47AM (#26357366)
More like since renewables are not commonplace and it costs money to move its easier to believe they are not using renewables.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by read_if_gay_ on Friday March 05, 2021 @02:35PM (#26361070)
You can of course believe whatever seems easy to you, but you do realize that I linked to a published study that says miners are using renewables far more than the US does on average, don't you?
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by tekknik on Monday March 08, 2021 @10:30PM (#26395111)
32% of miners use renewables. That’s not even a majority amongst miners.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by crumbshot on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:55AM (#26342411)
Good point, thanks - I'm using CCAF's 3rd Global Cryptoasset Benchmarking Study as the source for my assertion: https://www.jbs.cam.ac.uk/faculty-research/centres/alternati...

Their research indicates that a minority of mining is done using renewable resources:

> The survey findings estimate that on average 39% of proof-of-work mining is powered by renewable energy, primarily hydroelectric energy.

It also specifically addresses this popular claim of mining being powered mostly by renewables:

> China’s oversupply of hydroelectric energy during the rainy season has often been used as evidence in claims that a vast majority of mining is powered by environment-friendly power sources. While it is true that the Chinese government’s strategy to ensure energy self-sufficiency has led to the development of massive hydropower capacity, the same strategy has driven public investments in the construction of large-scale coal mines. Like hydroelectric power plants, these coal power plants often generate surpluses. It should not come as a surprise then that a significant share of hashers in the region equally report using both hydropower and coal energy to power their operations.

Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by read_if_gay_ on Thursday March 04, 2021 @09:19AM (#26342763)
The article seems to use the country average emissions per kWh for the US and China (it's hard to tell because the first reference is a 404, the other is 400+ pages, the final one is definitely country average numbers).

A cursory Google search says the percentage of renewable energy in the US and China is ~11% and ~23% respectively. The disparity between that and an average of 39% for crypto mining specifically does not seem to be factored in.

Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by crumbshot on Thursday March 04, 2021 @10:09AM (#26343328)
I think you're right, they do note this as a limitation of their study due to insufficient data:

> The great unanswered question faced when exploring cryptodamages is that while we can identify select geographic hotspots of production we currently do not know in the aggregate where the electricity used in cryptocurrency mining is physically produced. This is because we, like Krause and Tolaymat, do not know the physical locations of cryptocurrency miners, whether individuals, groups or aggregates in, say, a region or country. There is considerable evidence of concentration of mining operations in particular locations, typically where reliable electricity is cheaply available, though, precise data are lacking. In the US, perhaps the most well-known concentration is the Mid-Columbia Basin area in central and eastern Washington State, where cheap electricity is produced by hydropower along the Columbia River, however, mining in other US locations also occurs. There is also evidence of large mining camps in China. With time and emergent research there may be improved information about the amounts of electricity devoted to mining cryptocurrencies for particular locations or regions, but it is currently not available.

It would be interesting to see the results of their analysis if recalculated using the more granular CCAF survey data.

Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by danpalmer on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:37AM (#26342165)
Is the responsibility not on the person making the assertion to provide evidence?
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by tomxor on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:36AM (#26342160)
Onus probandi

Otherwise nonsense claims can easily destroy the discussion by DoSing the opposition.

Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by jorvi on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:40AM (#26342218)
That's not how it works. If I claim the moon is made of cheese and someone says he doesn't believe me, the onus is on me to prove it is, not on them that it isn't.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by trident5000 on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:43AM (#26342261)
The burden is on both people making statements/claims.
Re:Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and... by Marciplan on Thursday March 04, 2021 @08:37AM (#26342172)
Isn’t that exactly what the original comment was doing?