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Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by plutonorm on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:14AM (#26316842)
Crazy. Just put 10 complete systems in some radiation shielding.
Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by scottLobster on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:23AM (#26316959)
We're talking launching stuff into space, every kg of extra weight is critical, particularly for scientific missions that are trying to do as much as possible. Also no amount of radiation shielding is going to make you perfectly shielded from cosmic rays.

It's actually a chronic problem with Voyagers 1/2. The teams that maintain them regularly experience weird, unplanned behavior because a cosmic ray bit-flipped some register or other, and then they have to manually figure out what erroneous command got executed and how to recover from it, and those are extremely simple systems compared to what's running on Perseverance.

So yeah, you need radiation hardened parts in space or you're just begging for a dead probe.

Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by pklausler on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:49PM (#26319636)
There are three computer systems on each Voyager. They are dedicated to specific tasks (Flight Control System, Attitude and Articulation Control System, and Computer Command Subsystem), each with two instances for redundancy.
Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by scottLobster on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @04:29PM (#26321075)
Right, but that redundancy to my understanding is in case of component/system failure. It's a backup, not a judge-actor or error-correcting architecture.

Case in point: https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/engineers-diagnosing-voyager-2...

"Engineers successfully reset a computer onboard Voyager 2 that caused an unexpected data pattern shift, and the spacecraft resumed sending properly formatted science data back to Earth on Sunday, May 23. Mission managers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., had been operating the spacecraft in engineering mode since May 6. They took this action as they traced the source of the pattern shift to the flip of a single bit in the flight data system computer that packages data to transmit back to Earth. In the next week, engineers will be checking the science data with Voyager team scientists to make sure instruments onboard the spacecraft are processing data correctly. "

Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by myrandomcomment on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:22AM (#26316943)
Which is more weight.

The single highest factor in all space design is cost per kg lifted. The only thing that is more costly - lifting it successfully and then having it break.

Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by wlesieutre on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:25AM (#26316982)
For a rover it's not just lifting it, you have to put it back down once it gets to Mars. That's a 3-stage process with the aeroshell, parachute, and powered descent.

Heavier rover? You'll need more fuel for the skycrane's engines. And that fuel adds weight, so don't forget that you'll need more fuel to lift the extra fuel.

Now your rover and skycrane are bigger and heavier. Do you need a bigger parachute? Does everything still fit in the aeroshell? Is the fuel capacity for orienting and stabilizing the aeroshell still sufficient with the increased mass?

Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by plutonorm on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @06:58PM (#26322954)
The board in my phone is less than 100g. That's 1kg for ten of them.
Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by colejohnson66 on Wednesday March 03, 2021 @06:44AM (#26327172)
You’re assuming these computers are the size of a mobile phone
Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by retSava on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:33AM (#26317080)
It's not just the weight, there's also the complexity of handling 10 (or whatever) systems. It's not always easy to know when a system fails. How can you be sure that the output is invalid?

Detecting complete blackouts is fairly easy, after a while when a watchdog tickle is absent for too long, but bad output due to flipped memory? Consensus-style systems can be used, but they are also a complexity in itself, and the point here was to replace a hardened single point of failure with redundancy.

Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by moftz on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:50PM (#26319667)
There is also a time-domain problem with regards to total integrated dose. All the parts will degrade over time. Radiation hardened parts can have lives of 15 years or more in a GEO environment. A commercial part might be lucky to make it 1 year. Radiation shielding is not as easy as you may think. Heavy ions in space can pass through anything and will impart a charge in whatever they hit as well as creating secondary sources of radiation. Neutrons are not as common in space but can be found near reactors, they are also very penetrating.
Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by Rebelgecko on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @10:27PM (#26324365)
Not all radiation problems can be solved by rebooting/voting/watchdogging. Over time the hardware itself will die.
Re:Perseverance rover uses same PowerPC chipset found in 199... by iancmceachern on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @11:19AM (#26316903)
Too heavy