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Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by sandworm101 on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:26AM (#26303027)
>> I'm upper middle class and I've been able to save so much money by getting rid of my car.

Because you probably have job at a desk with a computer. You don't physically do much and so your per-minute presence at work isn't mandatory. If you are a few minutes late the world is not going to end and your workday rarely starts before 5am. You can handle the ins and outs of public transportation and/or you can afford to live close enough to walk/bike. I have a job that, while it pays well enough I have to be physically present (military, long story). While I am paid well enough I will get into real trouble if I am not on time every day. Sometimes I'm on call and have to get to work within 30-minutes of receiving a phonecall. I'd like to ditch the car, but I don't see any other reliable 24/7/365 transpiration options. Some of the people who work under me, and earn considerably less, are lobbying for "have own car" and "have own cellphone" to be listed work requirements. That might make at least some associated costs tax deductible.

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by acdha on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:07AM (#26303408)
I think the rest of their post after the part you quoted agrees with your point. So much of the US was designed or redesigned to only work for people who own cars but we still love to talk about them as if they were voluntary expenses ignoring the number of people who are one breakdown or accident away from unemployment & lack of access to healthcare.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by nitrogen on Monday March 01, 2021 @03:48PM (#26308196)
What city has public transit that will get you safely and quickly to work at 3AM? What city design will still accomplish all that after your job relocates 15 miles further away?
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by acdha on Monday March 01, 2021 @04:54PM (#26308968)
That was kind of my point: switching to suburban living, heavily subsidizing roads and parking but not having effective transit (or only having it for, say, tourists and sports venues rather than something a commuter could rely on), etc. are all choices which were repeatedly made by planners. We can make other choices and, especially now, climate change is likely to force us to consider at least some of them since even an electric car has a significant lifetime carbon emission contribution disadvantage due to the inherent spatial inefficiency of the medium.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by fr2null on Tuesday March 02, 2021 @02:42PM (#26319551)
Not with public transport, but in my (Dutch) city I can get everywhere, safely, within a reasonable amount of time, at all times of the day, by bike. From one end to the other wouldn't be exactly 15 minutes, but it would be under 30. With an electronic bike you can probably make that 20 minutes.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by offtop5 on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:50AM (#26303246)
Actually in my area public transportation is more reliable than driving.

Nothing like being able to play video games during your commute

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by sandworm101 on Monday March 01, 2021 @09:55AM (#26303296)
The video game thing is interesting. If we one day get truly autodrive cars, would a long commute matter as much? If I can literally sleep as the computer does the driving I probably wouldn't care so much about a longer commute.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by offtop5 on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:08AM (#26303412)
Wear and tear on the car would be an issue, even if you presume Tesla's can effectively drive themselves for free, Tesla still break down. I don't think I'd be okay with anything over an hour each way
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by gibspaulding on Monday March 01, 2021 @11:09AM (#26304169)
I'm really curious to see what the longevity of future electric cars ends up looking like. In theory electric motors should be able to last way longer than an ICE, and most other wear parts (suspension, breaks, etc) should be straight forward to replace.

The big question would be batteries, and in the case of Tesla at least right to repair issues.

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by sandworm101 on Monday March 01, 2021 @11:17AM (#26304257)
>> In theory electric motors should be able to last way longer than an ICE

Except that it is very rare for a car to be scrapped because of its engine. IC engines are mature tech. They last forever, longer than the body of the car. Extending the life of the engine further won't extend the life of the vehicle. And for such calculations one must include the battery packs. I think it safe to say that while electric motors might marginally outlast IC engines, I don't think that batteries will every have a functional lifespan longer than a gas tank (many decades, maybe even a century.)

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by throwaway0a5e on Monday March 01, 2021 @02:31PM (#26307133)
Exactly. Cars get scrapped because the part costs $W, you can't run a compliant business for less than $X, the tech needs to be paid $Y, the service manual subscriptions cost $Z and they all add up to a number greater than what a 2002 Cavalier is worth.

An under the table side gig mechanic can perform many more jobs in an economically viable manner because the fixed costs are so much less.

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by acdha on Monday March 01, 2021 @11:44AM (#26304663)
This might narrowly be true if your definition of engine excludes other ICE-only components like the transmission or radiator (which is technically correct in specialist discussion but not general usage). The most common non-crash explanation I’ve heard people cite for turning cars into write-offs with is a blown head gasket, so I’m not sure about your thesis in general, and it’s certainly not something an electric car owner needs to worry about along with a slew of other cost/complexity increases specific to ICEs.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by sandworm101 on Monday March 01, 2021 @12:07PM (#26305021)
>> a blown head gasket

That's a one/two-hour job, a thousand dollars at most. I don't think they are selling the car because the engine is bad rather that the car is now worth more in parts than as a complete object. The engine isn't dead, just in need of repair. This happens to electric drivetrains too. Windings break. Bolts shear. Bearings fail. And many/most electric cars (tesla) still have transmission-type things between their motors and wheels.

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by acdha on Monday March 01, 2021 @12:12PM (#26305099)
1-2 hours if it doesn’t cause heat damage - maybe my relatives have been unlucky but a couple had warping from explosive failures.

(Disclaimer: I’m a software guy, might be misremembering – the key point was that basically all of the times I’ve heard someone mention involuntarily getting rid of a car it was either an accident or something which does not affect BEVs.)

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by tangjurine on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:19AM (#26303522)
What about a motorcycle? Cheaper and insurance not required.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by sudosysgen on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:49AM (#26303906)
Also, you can use special lanes and in California lane split. If you're willing to take on the risk, and live in a sunny place, motorcycles can compete with public transport in cost.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by sandworm101 on Monday March 01, 2021 @11:00AM (#26304022)
>> ... insurance not required.

Where exactly is insurance not required for a motorcycle? Or do you mean moped? And it was -12c with two inches of snow on my car this morning. Anything on two wheels would be lethal. Good luck even riding a bicycle with two inches of new snow over a season's worth of compact ice.

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by tangjurine on Monday March 01, 2021 @12:27PM (#26305356)
I thought for my state there was no need for insurance, but turns out in 2019 they started requiring it. Seattle rarely gets snow so I didn't think about weather conditions.

I think a motorcycle couldn't work for your case, but some sort of one or two person on road / off road vehicle would still be cheaper than buying a car.

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by lkbm on Monday March 01, 2021 @07:58PM (#26310616)
In my experience, motorcycle insurance will be about a 20% the cost of car insurance, so it's still a lot cheaper.

70 mpg is also pretty nice.

Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by offtop5 on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:52AM (#26303949)
I don't have much confidence in most people being able to drive a car. While motorcycles do look really cool, it's just not something most people can safely do
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by throwaway0a5e on Monday March 01, 2021 @11:03AM (#26304084)
The proliferation of moped-like vehicles that exist right below the "everything beyond here is legally a motorcycle and the state makes you obtain an extra license and insure it like a car thereby providing a massive dis-incentive to not just get a car" line seems to indicate plenty of people are fine with the risks.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by acdha on Monday March 01, 2021 @11:46AM (#26304700)
Fine might not be the right term: there definitely are people okay with the risk, especially given how much faster they’ll get to their destination, but given how much more expensive cars are there’s also a financial push to take a possible risk over certain financial stress.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by lovegoblin on Monday March 01, 2021 @12:49PM (#26305652)
I prefer to keep my insides on the inside.
Re:On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't by PenguinCoder on Monday March 01, 2021 @10:44AM (#26303849)
Motorcycle can't carry kids (in the US) safely, or other needs like groceries. And yes, insurance is still required.