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A comment on Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for power after a ice storm.

Re:Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for ... by Tade0 on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @08:33AM (#26237008)
This makes me think: a locomotive's cruise power consumption is around 1MW, LiFePO4 batteries are currently $137/kWh, so for the price of a single machine($500k) one could have a rail car with 3MWh on board, which could be used in places where there's no overhead power supply.

I assume that just putting miles of cable along the track is more cost-effective, but it can't be used everywhere.

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Re:Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for ... by mlavin on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @12:07PM (#26239743)
The closest that's actively used is Wabtec's FLXdrive, which is a battery-powered locomotive run between two conventional diesel-electrics. Not a bad idea, since braking with the electric motors otherwise dumps the energy as waste heat. There's also the Railpower Green Goat, which is diesel-electric with a storage battery.

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2021/01/04-wabtecs-flx...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railpower_GG20B

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Re:Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for ... by bluGill on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @10:06AM (#26238086)
The power density of diesel is enough better than you can get a lot more out of it, and it is a lot faster/easier to refuel (at least for now). There is a limit to how long you want the train, so if half of the train is batteries it doesn't work out.

Miles of cable along the track is something the big railroads have looked at. If fuel goes to (and stays at) $8/gallon they will do it. Right now it isn't worth it, but the costs are easy to analyses.

The above is for freight rail. For passenger rail electric lines work out different, no serious operator of passenger rail uses anything else. Tourist attractions (generally running steam) are not serious. Diesel engines can be a useful backup for when wires break. Diesel is also useful on marginal lines that are only run at all because they already exist, but you would never build. Everything else - probably the majority - is incompetence.

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Re:Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for ... by Symbiote on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @01:25PM (#26240760)
> Diesel engines can be a useful backup for when wires break

In reality, this doesn't happen -- the capital cost of idle diesel locomotives would negate (and more) the money saved with the electric trains.

If catenary is damaged in Europe (usually by storms), rail services are suspended until it's repaired. Repair is a very high priority.

(For one thing, it's unlikely to be safe to repair the catenary if trains are still running.)

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Re:Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for ... by fomine3 on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @07:59PM (#26245250)
Tokyo Metro operates trains with battery backup since 2016.

https://www.toshiba.co.jp/infrastructure/en/topics/back-numb...

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Re:Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for ... by bluGill on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @03:55PM (#26242750)
Very good point. A diesel backup implies you can borrow it from some freight service, or have one in your tourist attraction fleet, and the problem isn't your wires but the wires feeding you.
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Re:Canadians derailed a train and drove it to City Hall for ... by Symbiote on Tuesday February 23, 2021 @06:29PM (#26244488)
Trains not having traction and signal power in Europe is incredibly rare. The railway is essentially its own grid due to the size, so can route power around many local problems. It's obviously one of the last things to be disconnected if there's brownouts.

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/about-us/publications/acop... §6.1.4 says the UK rail network "never" lost power supply up to 2017, but...

Two years ago, a 45 minute cut to railway power in South East England led to a £10 million fine to the power companies: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/03/three-energ...

The PDF also points out that a diesel backup is generally useless, since the line is blocked by the stuck electric trains.

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