News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by andrepd on Thursday February 18, 2021 @07:00PM (#26187607)
Okay, does Visa offer distributed consensus and verifiable transactions with no central trusted authority? Then it's an apples to oranges comparison isn't it...?

By the same logic, trucks are useless and inefficient because my moped burns 1/100th of the fuel per km.

> This is not something that can be solved with current crypto approaches. There are information theory constraints regarding how long it would take to reach consensus across a distributed system and in such a way that transactions are serializable.

This is demonstrably false. Newer-generation coins offer better tps, and even bitcoin itself can manage due to things like segwit and lightning.

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by csa on Thursday February 18, 2021 @08:21PM (#26188278)
> does Visa offer distributed consensus and verifiable transactions with no central trusted authority?

Ok, I’ll bite.

No, it doesn’t, but what is that actually useful for?

The best answer I can come up with is illegal activities and libertarian fantasies.

Even if one generously frames “illegal activities” in the context of financial freedom from a tyrannical regime, even that has limits.

Any regime with a banking system can implement a KYC-type of policy that will can make interacting financially with anything related to BTC difficult or impossible. Need a modern example? Look no further than online wallets (e.g., Neteller) and online poker sites after the UIGEA.

I will add that if any government views a digital coin as a threat to their fiat currency system, it will be trivially easy for them to make that currency an extremely inefficient store of value. The measures will be draconian towards coin holders, but most people (rightly or wrongly) won’t care.

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by PragmaticPulp on Thursday February 18, 2021 @09:14PM (#26188709)
> I will add that if any government views a digital coin as a threat to their fiat currency system

This fear is greatly exaggerated by people who have bought into the false idea that Bitcoin is the only way to escape inflation.

The definition of inflation is that asset prices go up. You can escape inflation by simply buying assets, or basically anything other than cash.

If someone truly believed massive inflation was coming, they would want to take out USD-denominated mortgages and buy houses. Inflation would increase the value of the houses and reduce the value of your loan repayments.

It's silly that so many people are afraid of the government devaluing their cash that they've decided the best way to escape it is to pile into an asset with an extremely lopsided distribution in favor of early adopters. The average person stands to gain more from recent stimulus than they stand to lose from inflation in their cash accounts. Doubly so if they invest their cash in stocks or assets, which doesn't even require Bitcoin.

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by astrange on Thursday February 25, 2021 @05:47AM (#26261655)
> The definition of inflation is that asset prices go up.

The definition of inflation is typically that consumer prices go up due to there being "more money". The only kind of asset that people consume is housing, and even then they don't really - housing as an asset (purchase price) can be disconnected from its consumption price (rent). Besides that, you can't eat stocks so you don't get poorer when the price goes up.

Assets can actually increase in price because of deflation. For instance, technology getting cheaper has made all the stockbrokers drop their transaction fees and add fractional shares, so now everyone can bid up the same stocks.

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by passwordreset on Thursday February 18, 2021 @11:42PM (#26189849)
> what is that actually useful for?

Ownership. It's the difference between "I own 20 quatloos because the Bank of Endor says so" vs. "I own 20 quatloos". It supports actual ownership instead of representative or proxy ownership.

In the same way that you can have $20 in the bank or $20 in your wallet. When it's in your wallet, it's actually yours and you own it. When it's in your bank account, then you don't actually own it, you must trust that your bank will do the right thing and give it back to you when you ask for it. That level of trust has been wavering for decades.

Remember that Bitcoin was started as a rebellion against the "second bailout for banks".

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by csa on Friday February 19, 2021 @12:10AM (#26190003)
I was hoping someone would give this answer.

OK... so what exactly is "ownership"?

A buddy of mine mined ~160 BTC (currently about USD $8.1m) back when it was fairly worthless. He left it on a hard drive on one of his many machines. BTC became worth something. He look for said machine and HD. Couldn't find it. That BTC is effectively gone forever. So... who owns it?

There are a not small amount of stories like the one above for various levels of non-trivial amounts of money (tens of billions). https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/13/business/tens-of-billions...

Situations like this point to a desire for many/most people to want some sort of custodianship so that they don't accidentally lose something that might be worth millions one day... or even hundreds or thousands one day. At that point, one is looking at banks and banking systems, so we're back at square one.

If one is looking at an alternative to banks, we sometimes/often get stuff like Mt. Gox and Bitfinex -- a situation in which a group of people who want to be independent of the banking system learn the lessons of the value of the banking system the hard way.

So I guess where I am at is that I appreciate a desire to rebel against banks -- they wield way too much power. That said, I don't think that it's particularly prudent (or maybe even possible) to throw the baby out with the bathwater on this matter. The banks definitely do some fairly nefarious stuff, but they also do a metric shitload of very pedestrian-but-useful stuff extremely well on a daily basis. Until a coin can replace that pedestrian-but-useful system with equal grace, I doubt that a coin will be able to replace our current system. Furthermore, somehow if it does, it will be because the current system integrates coins into the current system rather than coins usurping the current system.

So again... what is distributed consensus and verifiable transactions with no central trusted authority actually useful for?

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by passwordreset on Friday February 19, 2021 @09:56PM (#26201073)
>so what exactly is "ownership"?

Really? Ignoring the philosophic debate, ownership in terms of BTC deals with the capacity to modify the ledger using an agreed-upon protocol -- but you already know this, and I don't know why you're asking that question. What do _you_ think ownership means in terms of BTC? Do you think you can implement a public system for ownership of digital assets without a distributed consensus system? Or Verifiable transactions? Maybe you can, and if you do I'd love to see it. Good Luck.

>So... who owns it?

The person who has the key.

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by Karunamon on Friday February 19, 2021 @10:33AM (#26194197)
How is the thrust of this story any different from someone losing paper cash? How many millions/billions have been lost from physical currency becoming inaccessible?
Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by csa on Friday February 19, 2021 @11:28AM (#26194781)
The issue at hand is the potential value of “distributed consensus and verifiable transactions with no central trusted authority”.

My point is that most people seem to prefer having a central trusted authority, specifically for custodianship.

That’s why most people put money that is significant to them somewhere in the banking system rather than a shoebox or a tin can somewhere. They want that money to be be traceable, accessible, and recoverable.

There are exceptions, of course, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule, IMO.

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by Karunamon on Saturday February 20, 2021 @01:25AM (#26202113)
I can't help but think that the "accessibility" is doing most of the work here. Handling cash is a pain in the ass. Giving a merchant a series of 23 numbers over the computer is comparatively easier.
Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by hedora on Thursday February 18, 2021 @11:12PM (#26189608)
> does Visa offer distributed consensus and verifiable transactions

Yes. You sign one receipt at the store with a security camera pointing at you, and are handed a second, matching receipt by the vendor.

Re:Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3... by astrange on Thursday February 25, 2021 @05:48AM (#26261660)
Btw, you don't actually do that anymore. They dropped the signature requirement.