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Re:Umberto Eco: Ur-Fascism (1995) [pdf] by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @05:46PM (#26159765)
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. Is it the responsibility of a running clock to know the time that the stopped clock displays?

That is, I am not so worried that I'm a fascist that I'm going through the list, making sure that I share no points of intersection. I could have a point in common (syncretistic beliefs, say, or criticism of modernism) as part of a completely benign worldview. The fact that there is one point in common does not render my worldview fascistic or otherwise malignant. (In this, I am disagreeing with Eco, who said "But it is enough that one of them be present to allow fascism to coagulate around it.")

Now, the closer I get to all the points in common, the more concerning it is (and also the less likely I am to honestly do the comparison). But no, I'm not worried about "1/14 fascist"... at least not in myself, because I'm pretty sure my worldview is benign. (On the other hand, everybody thinks that...)

Re:Umberto Eco: Ur-Fascism (1995) [pdf] by jancsika on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:27PM (#26160932)
> at least not in myself

I'm not worried about HN users' ability to assess their own internal beliefs.

I am worried about HN users beginning and ending their self-reflection at a mere assessment of whether they think their intentions are good/benign/etc.

To go old school with your broken clock example-- if everyone's unset VCR eternally reads "12:00", you probably want to know whether the current time is exactly 12:00 when you try to convince a neighbor you programmed yours. (Well, theirs would blink, but you get the idea.)

It's a bigger deal when a benign belief intersects with the beliefs of neo-fascists or other asshole ideologies.

That may or may not require one to do anything in particular in response, depending on the context. But to not realize the intersections with asshole ideologies, or-- worse-- to actively resist caring (not saying you are, but that seems a growing pattern on social media)-- seems at best like electing to be a willing troglodyte in a complex world.

Edit: clarification

Re:Umberto Eco: Ur-Fascism (1995) [pdf] by Brendinooo on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:27PM (#26160926)
This is a thoughtful reply; thanks for it. I know that my framing is a sorites paradox, and won't have a tidy answer.

But maybe that's my point: Fascism is but one particular flavor of malicious totalitarianism, and totalitarianism can coagulate around a vast variety of beliefs across the political/religious/cultural spectra.

Studying the commonalities of particular flavors can be helpful, but it's tremendously unhelpful to whip out the list, check some boxes, and decide that someone is A Bad Person as a result.

Re:Umberto Eco: Ur-Fascism (1995) [pdf] by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:35PM (#26160995)
I think it's at least as often used to decide that I am not A Bad Person...
Re:Umberto Eco: Ur-Fascism (1995) [pdf] by Brendinooo on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:41PM (#26161036)
What do you mean?
Re:Umberto Eco: Ur-Fascism (1995) [pdf] by AnimalMuppet on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @07:47PM (#26161100)
You said:

> Fascism is but one particular flavor of malicious totalitarianism, and totalitarianism can coagulate around a vast variety of beliefs across the political/religious/cultural spectra.

I can go through a list like that, make sure that I check none of the boxes, and decide that I am verifiably not A Bad Person. (As if the only kinds of badness are fitting Eco's fascism checklist.) Or that the movement I'm attracted to is verifiably not A Bad Movement.

(All that said, it's not a totally bad list, and it does cross over some between different flavors of politics. Even Antifa checks more boxes than they would be comfortable with, if they seriously considered it.)

Re:Umberto Eco: Ur-Fascism (1995) [pdf] by Brendinooo on Tuesday February 16, 2021 @08:05PM (#26161257)
Thanks for clarifying!