How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by wongarsu on Sunday February 14, 2021 @07:18PM (#26137602)

This is something East-Germans are lamenting about when comparing East-Germany to West-Germany. Of course some of this self-serving behaviour exists everywhere, but as a society or even community you can put a focus on the "we" or on the "me". Our society happens to mostly stress the "me" part, which leads to the outcomes you describe.

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by refurb on Sunday February 14, 2021 @07:50PM (#26137795)

The basis of capitalism is that under most circumstances, focusing on “me” also produces the best outcomes for “us”.

And a pure focus on “us” can lead to poorer outcomes as there is no immediate reward for the person doing the work.

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by wongarsu on Sunday February 14, 2021 @08:01PM (#26137864)

The economist would say all you need is a proper set of incentives to ensure that what's best for the individual is best for the community. The AI-safety researcher would say that every set of incentives you find will have loopholes, and those will be exploited.

I'm not claiming capitalism doesn't work (at least for many definitions of capitalism, and work), but we should acknowledge its drawbacks, acknowledge strengths of other systems that otherwise failed, and hope to find a better model that has similar advantages with fewer of the drawbacks.

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by TuringNYC on Sunday February 14, 2021 @09:39PM (#26138457)

I agree capitalism and incentives produce loopholes, but a lot of those can be closed pretty easily with good governance. For example, many of us are tech workers and paid with stock/options/equity. This is a great system to align incentives -- we're all in the same boat to win or lose.

..except when we're not. You often see in-group worker game the system by taking ever increasing cash comp ("i win either way") or special incentive bonuses for managers who ensure delivery. Meanwhile, VCs are on first-out preference shares. Worse, you often dont know this is happening so you continue to think the real game is cashing out your equity.

This is poor governance IMHO. And many workers end up sniffing it out. The ultimate capitalist system would have absolutely guaranteed comp by equity w/o special side incentives.

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by pasquinelli on Sunday February 14, 2021 @08:39PM (#26138105)

other systems don't just happen to fail. they were strangled by capitalism. given that, how do you really expect to find a better model with fewer drawbacks and put it in place?

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by refurb on Sunday February 14, 2021 @08:32PM (#26138064)

Oh I don’t disagree. Capitalism without regulation can result in poor outcomes for some markets. As you said, regulations can help but also create loopholes that are quickly exploited.

But I think it’s disingenuous to say that a system focused on “we” suddenly solves all the issues with capitalism (which is what the grandparent was trying to infer).

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by treeman79 on Sunday February 14, 2021 @08:24PM (#26138005)

Wrong. Focusing on “us” ends in ruling class and endless poverty everywhere.

Alternatives to capitalism have been tried and it always fails.

Venezuela is the most recent example.

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by pasquinelli on Sunday February 14, 2021 @08:42PM (#26138119)

Venezuela is struggling because of a focus on the collective, not because of sactions, blockades, and coup attepts... none of that has any real effect.

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by imtringued on Monday February 15, 2021 @04:22AM (#26140823)

A common point in Bitcoin submissions on HN is that a deflationary cryptocurrency would help with the inflationary currency (e.g. in Venezuela) and make it possible for the average person to build wealth.

I just looked up Venezuela's situation. Well, food prices are going up because diesel sanctions prevent farmers from running their tractors. That's definitively not a currency problem.

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Re:How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive by ClumsyPilot on Monday February 15, 2021 @07:11AM (#26141984)

Alternatives to Monarchy have all been tried, and it always fails.

Focusing on freedom ends up in anarchy and chaos everywhere.

Freench revolution is the most recent exanple - just look at the amount of people beheaded!

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