As a midwestern conservative [evangelical] christian homeschooled white man, female nudity = sex = sin. As a normal adult married to a woman with a 9 month old baby yeah nudity aversion is ridiculous and actively harms natural processes like breastfeeding. It’s absurd that we parents, along with everyone else, have to pretend genitals don’t exist or some precious thing to hide away and treasure.

Where do you draw the line? There are lot of sexual crimes that are essentially just nudity.

Here in San Francisco there are various wrinkly old dudes who walk around town naked. Not something I would do myself, but it doesn't seem to hurt anybody.

There's a big difference between just being nude vs., say, performing a striptease which is explicitly sexualized or flashing a particular person which is a kind of personal attack.

What crimes are you referring to, and are you saying they should continue to be crimes?

“Aroused” states, touching, exposing to specific individuals, etc seem like pretty obvious lines.

I think most people can tell the difference between “being nude” and “being sexual”.

Well for starters. Public urinating shouldn’t be a “sex crime” like some jurisdictions have made it. And of course this is assuming the perpetrator isn’t doing it as some kind of personal fetish obviously.

Why doing something is ok until you dont get pleasure from it. Whats wrong with experiencing pleasure. Are we so envious of that but on same time ashamed to admit that?

It is not okay to include others in your sexual activities without consent. That's the line. Getting aroused by doing something in the public / been seen doing something means involuntary participation of others, which is not okay.

Yes so thats the question, why do you not concent to someone enjoying without harming anyone. Lets say i ecstatically enjoy sunsets by the see. Should i be forbiden to enjoy them because i enjoy them a lot more than nearby standing people?

Targeted exposure and sexual aggression. There’s a difference between “hey dad why is that person naked on the train” and a person masturbating at you while you’re heading to work. Sex crimes due to nudity, or eliminating, are unjust.

> pretend genitals don’t exist or some precious thing to hide away and treasure.

But breasts are not genitals!

Fun fact: the Pioneer space probes included a plaque with some information about Earth and humanity, for the benefit of any extraterrestrial being that might find it one day, but the drawings of a naked man and woman didn't include any detail in the woman's pubic area (imagine a Barbie doll) because this was considered too obscene, apparently even for an alien:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_plaque#Figures_of_a_ma...

You know the Puritans left for the US because they wanted to enact even more strict religious rules right?

Someone once remarked to me that "you can understand a lot about the US by remembering it was founded by people whose religious beliefs were too crazy for 17th-century Europe."

I think almost every state has laws protecting breastfeeding in public. Otherwise the issue in the US focuses overwhelmingly on parents wanting to prevent children from seeing nudity.

How "public" can saunas get? There are also saunas/hottubs/showers at gyms everywhere. The only restriction is they are single-sex. Mainly for women keeping the guys out. Or at least that was uniformly the requirement until recent politics with transgenders.

I suspect Europeans are the odd ones out here. As an Asian I don’t find anything strange about Americans in that regard at all.

What part of Asia? Japanese are far less prudish when compared to USA or UK et al

I've been to Turkish baths and Koren baths before and only in the latter I was told to throw away the tiny towel I was holding to cover Mr Johnson. I don't know why in some cultures it is ok but in some others nudity ignites feeling of shame but after I threw the tiny towel I felt better. I guess peer pressure works both ways.

Sorry I meant South Asia.

But most people in the US are (very recent) descendants of Europeans, not descendants of Asians. Perhaps that's why the difference is interesting.

Is it just an American thing? I remember seeing this commentary by a British poet: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hollie-mcnish-breastfeeding-i...

Why would you want to be naked in front of a bunch of strangers? What is the special thing we are missing because of this?

If people have to be naked, most would prefer to strangers to friends and extended family. Probably because a shame / judgement fear exists.

Why would you want to be naked at all? Better sun covering, skin can breathe, etc

Why would you want to be naked infront of anyone? You are comfortable with yourself, perhaps pride in latest fitness routine.

With covid I don't really want to be around strangers..

What would be the downsides of being naked in front of a bunch of strangers?

To answer your second question: the sense of freedom, peace, and comfort.

It's much too intimate a relationship, in a sense. You're throwing your imperfections, or maybe for a better word your total presence at a person. It's kind of like those people who when you ask "How you doing?" at a checkout counter really tell you how they are doing, right down to the colonoscopy they are having next week.

I mean personal space, man; it's visual too you know? I don't need to know you have liver spots on your left buttcheek or the size of your wang when I don't even care to ask you your name.

edit in response to yours: You know what would really make me feel free, safe, and comfortable? If that party of drunk guys staggering dangerously close to me were also naked, too. I think I'm okay with giving up my freedom as not to make people uncomfortable that way, especially women.

It's all in the head and how you perceive the world.

They're strangers, the average person is not trying to develop any kind of connection with you (and the unaverage person who is, isn't going to let clothing stop them). When you go to the doctors and have to disrobe, they aren't trying to make a connection with you.

Who cares about imperfections? No one is perfect. The models you see on magazines are heavily photoshoped, the actors on screen wear tons of makeup.

If you don't need to know, don't stare. Staring is rude, clothed or otherwise.

I don't care about the size of anyone's wang, and I'm sorry that you've been conditioned by others to care about penis sizes.

I can't make sense of your edit.

I'm not saying you're wrong (and I hope that you're not saying I'm wrong), it's just all about perspective. If you're in a sauna, chances are extremely likely no one is wanting to inspect your body just as much as you don't want to inspect theirs, they just want a good sauna time just like you would.

Being naked should be incidental, not the goal.

First time I visited a sauna I had some reservations as well. I probably wouldn't have tried if my SO (who had been to saunas before) hadn't suggested it. But that anxiety about being nude melts away in minutes. Then I realized it's actually very relaxing.

There is no weird feeling of intimacy with the people present. They're there to relax as well, and odds are you will never see them again. And I suspect seeing average people and their imperfections makes it easier to accept your own.

If you don't want to see liver spots or the size of other mens penises then you could always just not look.

Drinking or being intoxicated tends to be forbidden in saunas. I suppose your fear of groups of drunk naked guys might be more likely at a nude beach? At least they won't be carrying concealed weapons.

Yes, but its the same body. Let's think about it, you dont check guys hand size when its naked all the time, why would you care about size of his penis (its also strange how even in comments most peopele feel uncomfortable calling body parts by they proper name). You should not.

> What is the special thing we are missing because of this?

At least where I live, the main thing we're missing is frostbite.