Re:What you can learn about medieval Europe if you focus on ...
by emptyfile on Friday February 12, 2021 @06:39AM
(#26112602)
Yeah, I don't believe you.
In general, if you want people believing you, try not to use throwaway accounts and pre-typed copy-pasted answers, but instead engage in dialogue.
Re:What you can learn about medieval Europe if you focus on ...
by 29athrowaway on Friday February 12, 2021 @12:50PM
(#26116377)
It is your choice to trust whatever you want to trust. But if you have intellectual curiosity, you'll eventually arrive to a similar conclusion.
Have you ever asked yourself "how was paper adopted in europe?", "where do universities come from?", "what was needed in order to be a scientist in the middle ages?", if you haven't, try to find an answer to those questions.
There's a eurocentric answer to those questions, and a non-eurocentric answer. The eurocentric answer either ignores or downplays the importance of all the influence coming from the Islamic civilization through the Iberian peninsula and Italic peninsula.
Re:What you can learn about medieval Europe if you focus on ...
by SpicyLemonZest on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:14PM
(#26110672)
The Renaissance undoubtedly owes a lot to medieval Islamic scholars. But to say that it's the "legacy of the Islamic world" implies a degree of continuity that just isn't true. The thinkers of the Renaissance didn't view themselves as inheritors of the Islamic scholarly tradition, and many saw the Muslim world as what we might call "scary foreigners" today; it does nobody any good to whitewash that.
Re:What you can learn about medieval Europe if you focus on ...
by Karrot_Kream on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:49PM
(#26110835)
The very fact that thinkers of the Renaissance thought that is itself a form of whitewashing. The very books that sparked the Renaissance were kept alive by the Islamic empires. The Renaissance thinkers, in order to advance their Christianity, wanted to ignore the Islamic contributions to their culture. In certain cases, like the Mozarabs and the Moors, Islamic architecture and customs deeply influenced what later became Catholic states. While the OP may be overly forceful, the repudiation of Islamic empires from the Middle Ages onward is a massive disservice to history. Let's not forget that the Ottomans were on the German side of WWI, the same state that traced its lineage through the Byzantines back to the ancient Islamic caliphates themselves.
I am talking about the 12th century.
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The bibliography used to kickstart the Reinassance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_translations_of_the_12th...
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Paper, and by extension, scalable libraries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_paper#Paper_in_Euro...
> The oldest known paper document in Europe is the Mozarab Missal of Silos from the 11th century, probably using paper made in the Islamic part of the Iberian Peninsula.
No paper = Books made out of parchements = Prohibitively expensive books = No libraries = No scholars
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"Our" modern higher education system: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ijazah
> George Makdisi, professor of oriental studies, theorized that the ijazah was the origin of the university academic degree as well as the doctorate.
No universities = No doctorates = No advisors = No science
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"Our" modern astronomy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfonsine_tables
> The Alfonsine tables were the most popular astronomical tables in Europe and updated versions were regularly produced for three hundred years. Nicolaus Copernicus, known as the father of modern astronomy, bought a copy while at the University of Cracow.
No astronomic data = No modern astronomy = No laws of gravity and motion = No physics
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"Our" philosophy that is tolerant to science: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholasticism#Early_Scholastic...
> This period saw the beginning of the 'rediscovery' of many Greek works which had been lost to the Latin West. As early as the 10th century, scholars in Spain had begun to gather translated texts and, in the latter half of that century, began transmitting them to the rest of Europe.
No tolerance to science = Scientists harassed by the church = Science becomes impossible to conduct.
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"Our" understanding of optics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snell%27s_law
> The law eventually named after Snell was first accurately described by the Persian scientist Ibn Sahl at the Baghdad court in 984. In the manuscript On Burning Mirrors and Lenses, Sahl used the law to derive lens shapes that focus light with no geometric aberrations. The law was rediscovered by Thomas Harriot in 1602.
No optics = No astronomy = No age of exploration
No optics = No microscopes = No biology = No modern medicine
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... And the list goes on, and on, and on. The Reinassance is the legacy of the Islamic civilization. It is overwhelmingly clear. Your school teachers lied to you, and their teachers lied to them.
Don't believe me? Take a look here: https://genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/extrema.php
The first doctoral advisors were Islamic. Every known scientist is somehow a student of them. Follow the chain of doctoral advisors and learn the unavoidable truth.
Enjoy your new, more historically accurate perspective on the world. Downvote all you want, eventually your descendants will learn the truth in school one day anyways, when we are done undoing the revisionism.