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Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by floatingatoll on Thursday February 11, 2021 @11:58AM (#26103958)
I would think that given what we’ve done here in the US to the past forty years of workers, they’ve earned a decade off to live on UBI and heal from burnout and develop interests of any sort in anything at all again, before we could even begin to productively analyze their reactions to UBI. They’ve been traumatized and it will take time to heal and I certainly hope that we implement UBI and let them do so. We can afford it as a country and god knows they’ve done enough for us to have earned a break from work if they need time to heal.
Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by skrowl on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:39PM (#26105415)
210,000,000 working age adults in the USA * 40,000/year UBI welfare handouts * a decade = 84 TRILLION dollars.

The US govt is currently spending about 2 trillion / year more than they take from their citizens in taxes.

Out of curiosity, what makes you think "We can afford it as a country"?

Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by karpierz on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:53PM (#26106270)
Out of curiosity, why did you cite a "deficit per year" figure for context, but provide a "cost per decade" figure for UBI?
Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by alphameese on Thursday February 11, 2021 @04:15PM (#26107305)
Also who’s proposing a 40000 / year UBI? Most figures I’ve seen are for 2000 / month, aka 24000 / year.
Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by floatingatoll on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:36PM (#26108334)
The alternative to affording it seems worse. And your figured are rather assumptive, ignoring critical implementation details like “UBI could be written as a tax credit” or so on. But, let’s take your numbers and scenario briefly anyways.

$4T per year is only 15% of GDP, right? 15% is the capital gains tax, and technically GDP is the measure of a country’s capital gained, so just apply the 15% capital gains tax to the country’s capital.

“But that’s a lot!” Yup.

“Is GDP growing enough?!” Not the way we treat workers today; the last time it was above 5% was, coincidentally, right when the wage/efficiency gap started widening.

“How do we make the math work then?” Good question. What figures make your approach work, given historical rates of GDP and growth pre-Reagan, post-Reagan, and in a theoretical world where pre-Reagan rates return once we stop abusing our workers?

I was just making the point that we have a lot of healing to do before we can presume to measure under UBI the contributions and growth and courage and strength of mind and will from the workers we’ve abused for forty years.

You’re making an argument that, I think (?), we can’t afford to allow 100% of our working age citizens to subsist on UBI. So tell us what figures you think would plausibly work in your own terms, so that we can see your complete viewpoint and argument. Is that $100/person/month or $1000? Are you accounting for GDP growth over ten years or not? What percentage of workers can we afford to carry on UBI for ten years? And so on.

Do the numbers work out better if you factor in an imaginary 50T reclaimed through taxation/levy/law from those who’ve accumulated it and transfer the entire sum directly into the UBI payout fund? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26102709

It’s fine to try and use math to argue your point, but being sarcastically dismissive with simple algebra hasn’t given me enough to give your point consideration, as I’m still not even sure I understand it yet. I did my best and I hope the above is some use to others, but I’m not confident at all that I understood well enough to reply to you.

Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by skedaddle on Friday February 12, 2021 @01:36AM (#26111254)
Even if you can pull that much money out of... somewhere... Why is paying everyone to stop working the best use of the funds? Rather than paying for infrastructure or services or, I don't know, an awesomely large tower reaching into the sky or something?
Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by rayiner on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:02PM (#26105697)
But people mostly don’t do stuff like actively edit Wikipedia.

I’m a big fan of having a robust social welfare system, but we need to acknowledge realities that maybe we don’t prefer to acknowledge. Many people on welfare are idle don’t do anything meaningful with their time. The response to that isn’t necessarily to cut welfare. It could mean taking a bigger picture look at society to see how changes have affected peoples’ abilities to have meaningful lives and civic engagement without work.

Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by omg_ponies on Thursday February 11, 2021 @05:55PM (#26108568)
> Many people on welfare are idle don’t do anything meaningful with their time.

Do you have a citation for this claim? My understanding is that enormous numbers of welfare recipients are elderly, frail, or have chronic medical issues.

Re:The Vaccine Had to Be Used. He Used It. He Was Fired by yowzadave on Monday February 15, 2021 @06:06PM (#26148840)
Or are students, or are children, or are taking care of the elderly/disabled/children/etc.