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Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by umanwizard on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:16AM (#26101117)
The hedge funds vs. common people narrative is ridiculous. There were hedge funds on every side of the trade.

I do agree that it would have been unethical (or at least pretty dubious) for the company to sell the stock knowing it’s massively overvalued.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by WJW on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:47AM (#26101438)
> knowing it’s massively overvalued.

Overvalued is in the eye of the beholder, in this case the market. There were people willing to buy the stock at that price, why not sell it to them? If the buyers really believed it was going "to the moon", then you could just as well argue they cheated a lot of potential buyers out of the chance to get in on that action.

Finally, if you do think it's overvalued, arguably the best thing to do as a company is sell more stock, to maximize the amount of money per share you get. This is the way Tesla does it for example: they only sell more shares into the market when the stock price is particularly high.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by GordonS on Thursday February 11, 2021 @12:53PM (#26104803)
It always boggles my mind when I think about how public companies' shares are valued based purely on "what the market thinks". It just seems so ripe for abuse. And I guess as someone who lived in a world of software, I don't like the lack of "logic" behind valuations.

I wonder if there are there any markets anywhere in the world where company shares are publicly traded, valued by a quantitative means, such as a multiplier of revenue or profit?

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by WJW on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:10PM (#26105043)
According to "regular" stock market philosophy, the "correct" price for a company is the sum of all of its future cash flows. However it is not really feasible to predict what the future profits of a company in a free-ish market are going to be, since at any point a new competitor might pop up and take some market share. In addition, you can't predict if a growing company will not start stabilizing at some point in the future, which would affect its future earnings and thus its price.

So the answer to your question must be no, there are no stock markets where shares are traded on a purely quantitative base. This is because the only way for price discovery on such a market is by perfectly predicting the future, which is not (as far as we know) possible.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by GordonS on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:21PM (#26105899)
I meant based on reported actual figures, rather than predicted ones. It was just a random thought though - the way our financial markets work is so entrenched that I'd be very surprised if anything like it did actually exist anywhere.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by WJW on Thursday February 11, 2021 @03:16PM (#26106543)
It doesn't matter whether the rest of the world will do anything with it if we enjoy theorizing about it on the internet in our free time :)

I don't think reported actual figures are enough to form a good enough image of the worth of a company. The proverbial example would be of buggy whip companies (selling whips for horse drawn carts) reporting record profits the year that Ford opened his first automobile factory. Clearly the buggy whip companies did not have a bright future ahead of them, but you wouldn't be able to tell from reported figures.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by elindbe3 on Sunday February 14, 2021 @06:57AM (#26131624)
Reported figures happened in the past though, it's the future cash flows which affect the price of a company and no one knows what those cash flows will be exactly, not even the company itself.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by christophilus on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:55AM (#26102934)
I think it’s unethical for a highly overvalued company NOT to issue shares. Good capital allocation means issuing shares when you’re at an insane valuation and buying them in when you’re severely undervalued. They could have issued shares, paid off debt, or used the cash to launch new products, etc.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by sodality2 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:27AM (#26101234)
It's like a battle between 2 humans and the ants are on one side. Retail traders may have started this, but they certainly didn't make up most of the shares holding. This is why the short squeeze is unlikely.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by jcfields on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:41AM (#26101378)
The short squeeze happened two weeks ago when the stock ballooned from $20 to $480. That's a 24x increase; VW's "infinity squeeze" comparatively only grew 5x from $200 to $1000.

People on WSB had some arbitrary price targets in mind and are in denial that the stock hasn't squeezed yet because they haven't hit those (completely made-up, with no basis in anything) targets.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by JumpCrisscross on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:02AM (#26101578)
> The short squeeze happened two weeks ago when the stock ballooned from $20 to $480

Almost certainly not. We will learn, in time, how much of the run was shorts closing out and how much of it was momentum.

Keep in mind, too, that most institutional short sellers hedge their risk with out of the money calls. Given the increase in volatility, those calls would have more than covered the short losses.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by sodality2 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @01:18PM (#26105134)
True. I mean the short squeeze the redditors are hoping for ("100k is not a meme guys just hold lool!!!!")
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by soneca on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:36AM (#26101319)
Well, ants do kill humans by themselves.

Edit: I was just nitpicking the analogy, I agree that the “common folk vs hedge fund” narrative is totally delusional.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by rchaud on Thursday February 11, 2021 @09:55AM (#26102040)
It's similarly unethical for companies to be able to borrow at 0%, then use the money to conduct stock buybacks, but I guess the S&P500 and DJIE don't have to be tethered to economic reality anymore.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by umanwizard on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:43AM (#26102741)
Why is that unethical?
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by rchaud on Friday February 12, 2021 @01:13PM (#26116633)
Because the purpose of state-sanctioned cheap capital is to defray the cost of investing in your business...hiring people, buying capital equipment, investing in R&D. Not spiking your own share price by bidding it up on public markets. That does nothing except help managers' stock options more profitable.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by mschuster91 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:49AM (#26101470)
> The hedge funds vs. common people narrative is ridiculous.

Is it? Without the retail investors (gamblers) nothing of that would have happened. And Melvin Capital lost a couple billion dollars while quite a number of Redditors got a massive payout, so a net win for society.

Side note: As an European, the amount of GME-related "paid my student loan" and "paid my medical bill" posts on Reddit are heartbreaking to read.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by dcolkitt on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:02AM (#26102125)
> And Melvin Capital lost a couple billion dollars while quite a number of Redditors got a massive payout, so a net win for society.

And quite a lot of Redditors suffered massive losses. There's not shortage of WSB posts with 7 figure losses. Overall it's pretty hard to assess whether on net "Wall Street" made or lost money to retail. Melvin certainly wasn't the only player here.

It's likely that other funds jumped in on the squeeze, and were much better in terms of timing their exit. Some funds may have shorted on the way back down, and made a killing.

But most importantly, intermediaries like HFTs, option market makers, internalizers, and stat arb funds made a killing. Almost entirely at the expense of retail flow. It's like a casino. Some win, some lose, but the house rake always wins.

But even if retail on net made money, it probably wasn't a benefit to society. 20 people losing their life savings so that /u/deepfuckingvalue can become a multimillionaire isn't exactly a heartwarming story.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by fileeditview on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:33AM (#26102573)
If you have a 7 figure loss you most likely had at least 7 figures in the bank.. not really the typical "simple man".

Also laying blame on deepfuckingvalue seems ridiculous to me. He was basically the only one that invested in Gamestop as a value investment.. about a year ago. Everyone told him he was stupid but he kept with his plan. Then at some point a horde of crazies jumps on the train and now he is taking money from "20 people losing their life savings"? meh...

This whole topic reeks of simplifications, misguided blame and populism.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by fractionalhare on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:57AM (#26102981)
> If you have a 7 figure loss you most likely had at least 7 figures in the bank.. not really the typical "simple man".

I do not think this is usually the case on WSB, where people regularly show off trading on margin several times larger than their total account size :)

Even without margin, it's not uncommon to see people freely admitting they put everything they have into a single position (and mods happily verify it).

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by jki275 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:29AM (#26102504)
Especially when you look at who that dude actually is...
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by fileeditview on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:34AM (#26102589)
Care to explain what is wrong about him? This is a genuine question.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by mschuster91 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:43AM (#26102745)
Keith Gill aka u/deepfuckingvalue is an actual licensed broker and financial analyst: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Gill_(investor)
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by jjeaff on Thursday February 11, 2021 @02:23PM (#26105933)
He is licensed, but it doesn't appear that he was an active broker. From what I have read, he was creating marketing or training videos of some type for Mass Mutual. He also resigned his position in January. Though not fully before everything blew up with gme.
Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by jki275 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @12:14PM (#26104225)
Yep.

Works(ed?) for Mass Mutual.

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by mschuster91 on Thursday February 11, 2021 @10:33AM (#26102559)
> But even if retail on net made money, it probably wasn't a benefit to society.

It is, because the open corruption of the stock market, the absolutely disgusting behavior of major players and especially the arcane rules (like T+2 settlement, made necessary by the US's fossilized banking infrastructure) became dragged into the spotlight.

Wall Street claimed to have learned their lesson after 2008ff? GME proved that they all haven't learned a single damn thing.

> 20 people losing their life savings so that /u/deepfuckingvalue can become a multimillionaire isn't exactly a heartwarming story.

It's called wallstreetbets for a reason. I'm sorry but people dumping their life savings into the stock markets on a crazy bet by anonymous Redditors, that's just... dumb. (On a side note, such cases are why basic financial education should be mandatory at schools!)

(Disclosure: sunk a couple hundred into AMC and NOK, planning on holding all of it until at least the pandemic ends)

Re:GameStop missed out on capitalizing on the Reddit rally by fractionalhare on Thursday February 11, 2021 @08:56AM (#26101515)
Quite a number of redditors lost a lot of money too. If you sorted by new on WSB last week when GME plummeted, you could see lots of posts with 5, 6 and even 7 figure losses.

Given that 6 million of the current 8.5 million WSB subscribers joined after GME popped, I think most retail investors probably lost money. At this point it's a minority who got in early and made a lot of money.