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Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by dubcanada on Monday February 08, 2021 @03:51PM (#26069935)
Another question, I don't see any mention of security. You are in complete control of our users/profiles and their login credentials and there is zero mention of how secure that data is.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by colinclerk on Monday February 08, 2021 @04:06PM (#26070127)
Hi dubcanada,

Thanks for your questions! It's good feedback that there's no security documentation up yet. We have a lot more content coming live in the next few weeks - but let me try to hit some of the most important points:

* Session management is handled with secure, httpOnly cookies. We have you set a CNAME in production so we can set cookies in a first-party context (SameSite=Lax). * Cookies are scoped only to domains that require authentication data. If your backend is on api.example.com and you're running hosted Wordpress blog on blog.example.com, Wordpress won't receive your session cookies. * Passwords are bcrypted * All frontend-facing endpoints have CSRF protection enabled

Please let us know if there is anything specific we can help clarify. We've gotten into the nitty gritty so there's a lot to document, and it would be great to understand what areas to surface most prominently.

Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by bpicolo on Monday February 08, 2021 @05:32PM (#26071177)
Glad you chose cookies for this versus localstorage JWT tokens. Kudos for that.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by braveyellowtoad on Monday February 08, 2021 @06:30PM (#26071824)
Out of curiosity, why are cookies preferred to local storage ?
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by bpicolo on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:22PM (#26072263)
As the others said - XSS. Stored XSS can still be a vulnerability with secure cookies, but locally stored tokens are a dramatically easier thing to take advantage of as an attacker, as they can just exfiltrate the token and hit your APIs with it.

For web browsers, cookie-based auth solves a ton of browser-specific problems that history has spent a long time building up answers for.

Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by maldini94 on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:09PM (#26072146)
XSS attacks.

Also note that the cookies should be http only and with the secure flag

Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by andrewnicolalde on Monday February 08, 2021 @06:50PM (#26071998)
Any JavaScript on the same origin can read localstorage IIRC.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by robertlagrant on Tuesday February 09, 2021 @06:28AM (#26076238)
Your HIPAA status will be important for the increasing number of health related apps out there that would probably use a service like this.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by itisit on Monday February 08, 2021 @04:08PM (#26070148)
SOC 2?
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by colinclerk on Monday February 08, 2021 @05:01PM (#26070804)
Not yet. We plan to pursue SOC 2 as we build out Organizations, since it's a clear requirement in a B2B context.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by itisit on Monday February 08, 2021 @06:13PM (#26071647)
And B2C. You really ought to provide more transparency around your current security practices on your site. I do not see why someone should implicitly trust your service without any assurances, guarantees, descriptions, whitepapers, etc.

Here's a good reference: https://trust.okta.com

Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by e-clinton on Monday February 08, 2021 @11:49PM (#26074006)
Bcrypt should be replaced by Argon2
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by philip1209 on Monday February 08, 2021 @04:01PM (#26070056)
Agreed - but I would also be interested in knowing if they hold cybersecurity breach insurance. That way, users could actually submit a claim for major issues.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by f430 on Monday February 08, 2021 @04:30PM (#26070431)
I forget what this effect is called. Every once in a while a new service comes along that tries to compete with Amazon and there is a huge cost of entrusting the new entrant.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by ketzo on Monday February 08, 2021 @04:55PM (#26070727)
I think I've seen the term "trust moat" used before, which I like for describing this effect.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by f430 on Monday February 08, 2021 @05:00PM (#26070800)
sort of like "economic moat"...yeah I can definitely see why AWS is quickly becoming a monopoly. 10 years ago? I might have used Clerk, I guess I'm not seeing what the value proposition here is to me its:

Do I trust a new service or continue with one of the most trusted service from AWS?

Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by ketzo on Monday February 08, 2021 @05:19PM (#26071004)
Yeah, definitely. It's a phenomenal virtuous cycle for AWS.

I think that honestly, the biggest sell for a lot of newcomers is gonna be "you don't need to know AWS!" -- in my (very limited!) experience, if you want to do X with AWS, you're gonna need to learn how to do W, Y, Z, and maybe A and B with AWS too.

Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by dpayonk on Monday February 08, 2021 @07:23PM (#26072275)
Another selling point is if you are not using AWS infrastructure at all. If you are trying to build a service that you do not want to utilize the tech giants AWS or Google, it’s a selling point.
Re:Show HN: Clerk – all of user management as-a-service, not... by f430 on Monday February 08, 2021 @08:51PM (#26072891)
it's a tough sell imho because AWS has a learning curve but I feel like most devs are okay with being enmeshed for building scalable and secure systems on top of it.

AWS moves so quickly I think it would be a disadvantage to rely on a smaller, unknown 3rd party that tries to replace itself as AWS.