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Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by smt88 on Saturday February 06, 2021 @04:08PM (#26049956)
> Therefore, the other side is always spreading disinformation.

Untrue. There are lots of issues (climate change, for example) where one side (oil companies, in thise case) is spreading information that they know is not true by paying people who claim to be neutral.

The latter is what people are raging against: the weaponization of social/ad networks by disingenuous actors, like authoritarians and oil companies.

When people say they want to "stop disinformation campaigns," they're not talking about sincere individuals on the opposite side of an issue.

Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by hpcjoe on Saturday February 06, 2021 @05:40PM (#26050738)
If I, as a (non-practicing) scientist (physicist), look at the evidence for something in vogue (say climate change), and say I have trouble with some of the conclusions, then I am immediately and permanently labeled with the absolutely ridiculous "climate denier". Yet, and this is important, SCIENTISTS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SKEPTICAL. Their job is to, generally, build new hypothesis, make predictions, test predictions, and not, in any way shape or form, fall in love with a theory, such that they exclude evidence that may contradict their belief. More broadly speaking, they should not believe. They should be skeptics.

The facts, the arguments should win the day. Not the histrionics.

Sadly, we are human. We are fallable. We see political winds that impact our funding for our research, and we avoid rocking those boats.

In 1918, Einstein's theory of General Relativity was not considered the way things worked. Eddington and Einstein made a prediction about deflection of photons near the sun during and eclipse. Newton's equation gave one result, while GR gave another. Eddington made the measurements, and the rest, as they say, is history.

Theories rise and fall based upon evidence. Attacks on evidence you don't like, or the source of funding for research that raises difficult questions, really doesn't help.

Look up Lysenkoism for a great lesson in why following political/popular guidance can be a really bad idea for science.

Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by CuriousSkeptic on Saturday February 06, 2021 @06:37PM (#26051200)
> If I, as a (non-practicing) scientist (physicist), look at the evidence for something in vogue

You felt the need to identify your field of expertise there. Does this not imply that you actually do believe it matters? There is body of knowledge shared by the experts in a field that help facilitate the process by focusing efforts on productive discourse. Sure every now and then som crazy theory needs to be entertained to advance the field. But it would be a colossal waste of energy to give credence to every amateur with a dissenting view point no?

Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by oji0hub on Saturday February 06, 2021 @05:28PM (#26050633)
> The latter is what people are raging against: the weaponization of social/ad networks by disingenuous actors, like authoritarians and oil companies.

It's a very optimistic view and it's certainly how things are often framed. What I've seen over the past few years though, is a very efficient filtering of the internet of almost all content that isn't left learning from all major forums and a shutting down of those that could not be filtered.

Framing this as an anti mis/disinformation campaign is very clever, sometimes pointing at flagrant examples while actually censoring widely.

Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by jacquesm on Saturday February 06, 2021 @05:45PM (#26050787)
> What I've seen over the past few years though, is a very efficient filtering of the internet of almost all content that isn't left learning from all major forums and a shutting down of those that could not be filtered.

No, you are mistaken. What is 'left leaning' in the United States would already be considered considerably right-of-center in most of the developed world, besides that, there is plenty of right leaning content out there. What has happened is that a bunch of companies decided to stop supporting some of the more batshit crazy outlets on the extreme rightwing part of the spectrum. But that doesn't mean you won't be able to read the Wall Street Journal, The American Spectator or a ton of other right leaning publications.

It's just going to be a little harder to organize the next insurrection or to spread outright lies. But that's fine.

Framing this as anything to do with censorship is very clever, but it really isn't. For many reasons.

Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by blub on Saturday February 06, 2021 @07:18PM (#26051436)
Oh, there's definitely something going on, but I'm not sure that the factions can be split so easily into left-wing and right-wing, even if the political orientation correlates.

Instead I would say that there's some hot button topics like immigration, racism, climate change, discrimination of all kinds, etc and there's a faction which is for more immigration, aggressively and militantly fighting racism and climate change, etc and several factions which don't agree with the above to different extents. The positions of the pro faction have become the default in mass media, to the point that the media is educating and shaping opinions more than reporting facts. Members of the against factions are typically portrayed as wicked and associated with negative labels such as nazi, right-wing (has become a slur), racist, sexist, etc and silenced or forced to grovel in order to not lose their jobs/reputation/standing, etc.

This is by the way not localized to the US, instead it's visible in several (if not all) Western European countries.

Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by nights192 on Saturday February 06, 2021 @06:48PM (#26051275)
I apologize, but I fail to see how the consensus view of some manner of political philosophy matters--whether right or left--as it applies to discussion and debate, insofar as justification is provided and due research applied.

Again, I understand that the crux of your argument is that this discourse (that of the "crazy right wing,") is solely the fermenting ground of lies; however, I find that very difficult to believe, personally, and I believe that--while any side may develop misconceptions--exposure to these allows you to better explore your own beliefs in the face of adversity.

What is crazy is a relative concept--to be cliched, homosexuality was considered a mental illness until fairly recently.

Re:The war on disinformation is a war on dissent by jacquesm on Saturday February 06, 2021 @05:27PM (#26050626)
Exactly. This sort of framing by the way is an exercise in disinformation itself.