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Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by npsimons on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:26PM (#26040189)
> Hacker news is one of the places where I often value the comments more than the linked articles themselves. But wow. This thread is full of pseudo-science type reasoning.

It's been this way for years. HN is really quite good when it comes to things in their wheelhouse (software, tech companies), but hilariously bad about diet and related issues, I suspect because it's a sore spot for many and they are in denial.

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by pas on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:42PM (#26040356)
Diet is one of the things that's absolutely full of bad science, because it's hard to study. So claiming HN is somehow in denial implies there's an amazing scientific consensus. (Also even if we take the best studies at face value the relative risk differences are ridiculously low between diets. [At least as far as I know.])
Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by npsimons on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:48PM (#26040412)
> (Also even if we take the best studies at face value the relative risk differences are ridiculously low between diets. [At least as far as I know.])

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm willing to bet that just like me, you're not an expert in that field. And there are people who are experts in the field, reviewing the literature, and have come up with a pretty good consensus.

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by throwaway09223 on Friday February 05, 2021 @06:35PM (#26042560)
Here's the thing: It's pretty easy to chat with a bunch of experts and test your hypothesis.

In fact, I've recently done so owing to some recent health issues. As best I can tell there's almost no consensus among experts aside from "everything in moderation" and "eat a balanced diet" which isn't directed advice as much as hedging.

I have asked the various experts I've talked to why advice is so varied and their answer is that there is no consensus on many of these issues. Some had their own opinions about which parts might be right, others were clearly in the "it's a mess, just don't eat too much and wait and see" camp.

This is not a well developed field.

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by bdauvergne on Friday February 05, 2021 @05:28PM (#26042015)
What if there is no field to talk about ? Most people cannot believe that some part of science are not as advanced as others. But there are good reasons, nobody care enough to throw enough money at tit. Look at obesity in the US, if someone cared about it, if would be fixed. Much more money was thrown at advancing internal combustion motors than improving diet of the average citizen of the USA.
Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by tryonenow on Friday February 05, 2021 @05:40PM (#26042133)
I think it's reasonable for laymen to be skeptical of expert consensus in soft, non-experimental fields, especially when the consensus frequently changes significantly and is strongly influenced by industry, e.g. the views on dietary sugar/fat, cause of alzheimer's, lobotomies...

Particularly when consensus is not unanimous.

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by pas on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:52PM (#26040448)
I never claimed I was.

I'm basically regurgitating the Bad Food Bible book (written by Aaron Carroll, the guy who hosts HealthCareTriage).

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by npsimons on Friday February 05, 2021 @03:01PM (#26040535)
Well, I'm regurgitating a Dr. Greger of https://nutritionfacts.org, who is constantly reading studies and papers to get to the bottom of dietary science. You're welcome to spool through his hours of video on YouTube on the subject (where he quotes excerpts from studies he's read), or maybe just start with this one on gut flora and obesity:

https://nutritionfacts.org/video/gut-flora-obesity/

Sources are under the video.

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by pas on Friday February 05, 2021 @03:21PM (#26040716)
Yes, so. The linked video is about a n=30 observational study. "Diet science" is full of this. (At least this study explicitly noted that no inference regarding health outcomes were made.)

The guy is fighting the good fight (against USDA and so on), but this is still the HN is hilariously bad at diet and related issues.

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by breakfastduck on Friday February 05, 2021 @03:32PM (#26040829)
Dude there is far from a 'consensus' in this field.

Recommending reading one guys opinion on it sorta proves the point.

Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by Lopiolis on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:29PM (#26040223)
Well, more than diet, anything that isn't technical in nature. Economics, (geo-)politics, biology (particularly humans), etc. There's a lot of that fallacy around here that being knowledgeable/smart in one area means that obviously it transfers to every other field.
Re:Fecal transplant turns cancer immunotherapy non-responder... by npsimons on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:36PM (#26040291)
I just remember a while back fecal transplants came up here (and other forums I frequent) as a "treatment" for obesity, as they found different gut flora between obese and healthy weight populations. So many people were thinking they could get a fecal transplant to cure their obesity, not stopping to ask maybe what was causing gut flora to be different between obese and healthy weight populations.

And as for diet, the studies are out there. I'm no expert, but I listen to people who could credibly be argued are (as one example Dr. Greger who reads tons of studies and cites them in his videos), and typically their advice comes down to common wisdom that people just don't want to hear: eat food, not too much, mostly plants.