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Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by des429 on Friday February 05, 2021 @11:16AM (#26037894)
Just curious — who's using these today? Is it mainly for cases where you need to be able to easily physically transfer data?
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by temp0826 on Friday February 05, 2021 @11:44AM (#26038222)
Not nearly as uncommon as you’d think. Bigcos have all sorts of data requirements. One of my first jobs involved pulling tapes from libraries and sending them off to Iron Mountain every day (and on occasion retrieving and restoring from said tapes).

On the biggest end, you have folks like AWS glacier with an absurd amount of homemade libraries (and generally no tapes stored on/off-site outside of libraries)

Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by pacaro on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:26PM (#26038743)
I've never seen compelling evidence that Glacier isn't just a different API and pricing policy on top of S3
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by kondro on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:53PM (#26039128)
$0.99/TB replicated with Cold Storage seems pretty compelling to me.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by ghaff on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:12PM (#26038575)
I thought the consensus was that Glacier uses cold storage disk drives. It was speculated early on that Glacier was tape but AFAIK that was never confirmed and there's no published evidence that's actually the case.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by awiesenhofer on Friday February 05, 2021 @01:55PM (#26039848)
I always liked the rumors about it being huge BDXL libraries best. For example this HN entry: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7647571

IIRC Facebook actually built something similar for their cold storage.

Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by ghaff on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:15PM (#26040073)
I find it a bit surprising that AWS has been able to keep this such a secret, especially given that I would have imagined that big enterprise users would presumably want to know what Glacier actually is before depending on it.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by twistedpair on Friday February 05, 2021 @10:00PM (#26043730)
NDAs are wonderful things.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by dolni on Friday February 05, 2021 @11:27AM (#26038006)
Big companies that have a sizable on-prem data center and need a cost effective way to store backups off site.

At least that was the case at a place I worked ~5 years ago.

Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by awiesenhofer on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:23PM (#26038705)
Everyone who has lots of data and wants to store it as cheap as possible - tape is still the cheapest medium in $/TB. (Provided you have enough data, otherwise the initial overhead for drives and a robot might pivot the equation towards HDDs)
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by throw0101a on Friday February 05, 2021 @01:23PM (#26039496)
Insurance companies and banks for one.

Once you've invested in the initial infrastructure (drives, libraries), the incremental cost of extra tapes isn't that much, so you can keep things on the shelf for a long time for not a lot of money.

Send to two tapes for resiliency and every few years to a tape-to-tape copy to stay on the latest hardware. LTO drives can read two generations back: the just-released LTO-9 stuff can read LTO-7 tapes, and also write LTO-8.

Though a lot of backup software supports S3 APIs, so some folks are sending (encrypted) bits to Amazon Glacier (Deep Archive) since they practically will never have to retrieve it.

Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by fulafel on Friday February 05, 2021 @11:32AM (#26038080)
It's probably more expensive to use disk for what you'd get from a tape robot, considering the worse reliability and shelf life of disks and near-absence of hard disk loading robots on the market.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by 1MachineElf on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:04PM (#26038483)
A former IBMer told me a story about working at some large US government tape library with a tape robot that was essentially a powerful industrial 6-axis arm with sensors on top of treads. It did a good job shuffling tapes until someone accidentally messed up one of it's guides, after which said robot proceeded to crash through a brick wall.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by amelius on Friday February 05, 2021 @04:59PM (#26041757)
At least it didn't crash through a pile of tapes containing valuable data.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by kstrauser on Friday February 05, 2021 @02:33PM (#26040266)
Some types of tape have append-only mode, which is great for things where you want your backups to be immutable and auditable. Imagine a logging server that writes to tape regularly so that the logfiles can never be deleted or altered. That's super handy!
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by KaiserPro on Friday February 05, 2021 @04:07PM (#26041196)
They are still used in VFX a lot.

Its a good way to move entire shows to and from online storage. Its effectily a one off cost, vs a continuous cost for power and cooling. Its also a fast way to move data from one company to another. a ten drive robot is many times faster than 10gig ethernet.

For other companies its attractive because tape is literally offline. Once its out of the robot, there is no automatic way to get it online again. This means that its far harder to tamper with.

Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by jonatron on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:02PM (#26038471)
Some video production companies use tape for archiving. If internet speed isn't fast, it can be the only realistic and cost effective option.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by ephimetheus on Friday February 05, 2021 @04:47PM (#26041639)
They’re used by heavily by CERN to archive the LHC data. In ATLAS, we actually have to go back and reprocess that old data sometimes. So there’s dedicated software that runs on the grid to stage petabytes worth of data back onto hard drives, distribute them across the grid, process and then wipe the disks again. There are even tape robots in the data center here :)
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by tomerico on Friday February 05, 2021 @11:27AM (#26038017)
An example is the large hadron colider, where each experiment produces an enormous amount of data from all sensors.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by atty on Friday February 05, 2021 @11:37AM (#26038149)
That’s not just the LHC - it’s pretty common across high energy physics, nuclear physics, and astronomy, at least.

It’s a pretty great fit for the technology. You keep the most recent data on hard drives for analysis, and as new data comes online, the old data goes to tape. You don’t want to get rid of the old data, of course, because you need it for analysis verification and when people come up with new analysis ideas, but the older data naturally gets accessed less and less as time goes on, making tape storage a natural choice.

Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by hobojones on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:09PM (#26038527)
I've been told that NOAA uses tape to stream time series weather data into long-running simulations.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by sly010 on Friday February 05, 2021 @01:12PM (#26039364)
I use LTO to archive my home NAS periodically (see my comment above). I admit the decision to purchase the (rather expensive) drive was influenced by curiosity, not cost or convenience. But now I can keep hard copies of my entire digital life off-site at no additional cost for decades at a time.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by chefkoch on Friday February 05, 2021 @11:48AM (#26038271)
You backup to a disk array and offload the stuff you want to keep to tape for offline storage.
Re:Petabyte tape cartridges are coming by postalrat on Friday February 05, 2021 @12:11PM (#26038556)
All data is stored physically. All backups are physical.