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Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by crawsome on Sunday January 31, 2021 @09:55AM (#25979257)
Don got 5 killed during an attack on the capital, last I checked. A lot of good can come from private companies choosing not to give oxygen to his lies and hate.
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Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by geofft on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:48AM (#25979626)
In seriousness, if we had this as a norm (and not just a bludgeon for whatever politician we don't like), we'd be in a better place as a society. Obama has admitted that he continued the drone strikes because he couldn't afford to look soft on terrorism as a Democrat, for instance. No law compelled him to, just the court of public opinion. How would we get to the point where, instead, he couldn't afford to look excited about bombing?

And, similarly, different countries have had wildly different rates of success at dealing with covid, but history will not remember Ardern or Phúc as a hero for the lives they saved, and it won't remember any national leader who didn't manage to do the same (Trump, Biden, or especially Löfven and Tegnell) as villains. It will remember Trump and Biden as leaders of a superpower, and it will remember, falsely, that covid surprised everyone and everyone dealt with it as best they could. Again, the incentives are bad. Why bother to try your hardest if people don't mind if you fail and you get some temporary popularity from saying "Everything is fine, go party"?

People respond to incentives, and this applies to everything from national politics to, oh, workplace politics. Remember that Twitter banned Trump because enough of their employees finally had enough (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/01/16/how-twi...) more than any policy reason per se. Companies listen to unions when having the unionized employees present enough of an incentive for management to listen. Companies listen to non-unionized employees under the same conditions, too. A union just makes things more formal.

The fact that Biden did not feel compelled to suspend all military activity and lock down the country immediately upon assuming the presidency is certainly a failure of our society. If you want to say it's a personal failure, I (a Biden voter) will gladly join you. Let's just make sure we keep saying it for every president.

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by comex on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:58AM (#25980202)
> Obama has admitted that he continued the drone strikes because he couldn't afford to look soft on terrorism as a Democrat, for instance.

Citation?

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by geofft on Sunday January 31, 2021 @12:36PM (#25980640)
https://www.google.com/books/edition/A_Promised_Land/9mUKEAA...

> In fact, my hyperacctive chief of staff [Rahm Emanuel] - who'd spent enough time in Washington to know that his new, liberal president couldn't afford to look soft on terrorism - was obsessed with the list, cornering those responsible for our targeting operations to find out what was taking so long when it came to locating number 10 or 14.

> I took no joy in any of this. It didn't make me feel powerful. I'd entered politics to help kids get a better education, to help families get healthcare, to help poor countries grow more food - it was that kind of power that I measured myself against.

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by hedora on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:46AM (#25980076)
According to the actual covid death rates, infection rates, and projections, Sweden is doing about as well as the rest of Europe, and much, much better than the US:

https://covid19.healthdata.org/sweden?view=total-deaths&tab=...

I’m not sure why Tegnell gets so much hate for doing a softer economic shutdown, and getting similar results as more draconian approaches. As a bonus, projections say they’ll hit herd immunity sooner than many countries (assuming vaccine rollouts).

I guess, as you point out, history is written by the victorious, and Sweden’s minority approach will always be backed by a minority political voice.

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by geofft on Sunday January 31, 2021 @12:49PM (#25980770)
Covid is transmitted by interpersonal contact, and Sweden has a low population density. There is no equivalent of the Boston/NYC/DC megalopolis, Greater Los Angeles, or even the Bay Area in Sweden. Frankly, there isn't an equivalent of most of central Europe. See this map: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Population_density_b...

So for Sweden to be doing about as well (in deaths per capita) as the rest of Europe is a sign of failure on Sweden's part. To be doing better than the US is no comparison at all.

If you compare it to other Nordic countries (which are more comparable in terms of population density), it's doing much worse: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1113834/cumulative-coron...

Anyway, isn't this all my point? Sweden gets an excuse because other countries aren't doing well. Nobody is expecting anyone to do well. Why bother trying to save lives if nobody else is trying either? Why bother trying to do as well as Vietnam (which literally shares a land border with China!) if nobody is going to hold you to that standard?

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by ljf on Thursday February 04, 2021 @03:06PM (#26029191)
Totally this - especially when compared to the nearest neighbours - Finland, Norway and Denmark.
Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by throwawaysea on Sunday January 31, 2021 @12:34PM (#25980617)
Also see https://fee.org/articles/how-finland-and-norway-proved-swede... titled “ How Finland and Norway Proved Sweden’s Approach to COVID-19 Works”, which discusses the benefits of lighter touch policies.
Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by geofft on Sunday January 31, 2021 @01:06PM (#25980951)
This article says, "Our World in Data shows Sweden’s government response stringency never reached 50, peaking at about 46 from late April to early June." and "Norway’s lockdown stringency has been less than 40 since early June, and fell all the way to 28.7 in September and October. Finland’s lockdown stringency followed a similar pattern, floating around the mid to low 30s for most of the second half of the year, before creeping back up to 41 around Halloween."

But that doesn't seem to match what Our World in Data is actually showing right now: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-stringency-index?ta...

Sweden's stringency peaked around 65 and has never dropped below 55. Since early June, Norway has mostly been above 40.

So I'm curious what happened - did Our World in Data change their methodology? Did they add new data?

They also mention that 1) they are aggregating all policies, so this isn't a measure of "lockdown," 2) they are measuring the stringency of policies, not their effect (e.g., "Hard curfew at 10pm unless you're going to/from work" is pretty stringent, but probably less effective than "No indoor dining"), and 3) that they measure the maximum stringency of any subnational unit. I'd be very curious to see how exactly they compute their numbers. For instance, if there's a weak national policy on things like travel and quarantine that causes municipalities to do whatever smaller things are in their power like restricting visits to nursing homes, does that add up to a "more stringent" response in their measurement?

Or put more simply - apart from numbers on this chart, what is it that backs up the claim that Sweden had a more aggressive response than Norway and Finland did?

(Furthermore, FEE is a hard-capitalist advocacy organization and is interested in pushing a narrative around reduced government policies around everything, so their interpretations should be taken with a grain of salt, which is why I'm trying to find the original data. The conclusion of their article offers no policy position other than admitting we are powerless to control the course of virulent disease, which seems ... rather contradicted by history.)

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Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by DC1350 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:25AM (#25979890)
Biden spent months talking about how much work he was going to do to fix everything on day one. Literally nothing that matters has even been done yet. No excuses
Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by HarryHirsch on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:47AM (#25979614)
I actually agree with that, Biden is responsible for his feeble COVID response. From Summer onwards, it was quite clear that Biden was going to be President, and his team had 6 months to come up with a coronarecovery program to be implemented day 1 of his presidency. Instead, we are seeing a reliance on the vaccination program that was instituted by Trump (and works better than expectations) but nothing else. No word about elevated and long-term unemployment, branches of industry that are not coming back, low salaries and high asset prices. Everyone is worried about the stock market bubble, yet Biden's economic team is the usual Wall Street subjects.
Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by crawsome on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:49AM (#25979638)
Some serious mental gymnastics required if you think Biden had a silver bullet from Day 1. I'm sure he will come to disappoint us in the end, but the guy has been hard at work for the last 2 weeks reversing all kinds of Trump stuff. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/us/biden-sets-to-work-...
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Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by crawsome on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:38AM (#25979559)
93% of the BLM protests were completely peaceful. https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/

100% of the Capitol Protests are known to break into the capitol.

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by ttt0 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:38AM (#25980006)
First of all, "were" and "are known" is like apples and oranges.

Second, there wasn't just one Capitol Protest. So no, you're wrong.

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by will4274 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:02AM (#25979732)
93% of Trump rallies were peaceful. Does that make Charlottesville or the Capitol riot ok because they were part of the 7%?
Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by lawnchair_larry on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:52AM (#25979661)
Several hundred of them were not peaceful, and it doesn’t matter where you set the goal posts to get a denominator that allows you to say 93%.

You’re also wrong on that 100%.

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by stale2002 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:34AM (#25979964)
You believe that 10s of thousands of people broke into the capital building?

How would that even be possible? I want to know the logistics of your theory of the 10s of thousands of people who were in DC that day, all being funneled into a single building

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by sp332 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:47AM (#25979609)
Source for antifa or BLM body count?
Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by lawnchair_larry on Sunday January 31, 2021 @10:49AM (#25979640)
Please stick to facts, not fan fiction.
Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by jancsika on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:22AM (#25979879)
The problem is Youtube almost certainly will not filter on "lies and hate."

Youtube will filter on some blackbox intersection of heightened speech that has the potential to rile people up on the one hand, and a balance of cases such that Republicans cannot grandstand in Congressional testimony that Google is targeting the right.

So Jimmy Dore-- who generally yells, is unpleasant, and calls people names as he spews truths (mixed with the occasional naive opinion)-- might hit the filter. Or some boring socialist collective that nobody's heard of, like that case that Dorsey clearly used just so he'd have the name of a left-leaning organization that Twitter had banned.

Another way to say this: I do believe in "more speech" as a way to fight "bad speech," but if "more speech" does not include the freedom to read, understand, modify, and publish modifications of the recommendation algos that prime over a hundred million people then it's a dangerously constrained and misleading debate.

Furthermore-- if we depend on the "temporary" solution of trusting the companies to do cherry-picked bans to appease hundreds of millions of users, the companies will use all their data, money, and connections to paint that as a long term solution and leverage it to their bigger fight against monopoly regulation.

Re:Google union in turmoil following global alliance announc... by ttt0 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @11:53AM (#25980149)
They will filter "lies and hate". But that doesn't mean the "lies and hate" will magically disappear. Only the Government-approved(TM) lies and hate will be allowed to justify wars and authoritarian policies and you will be demonized and depersoned if you even try to question it. This is going to happen.