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Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by cm2187 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @05:36AM (#25967963)
You still have to keep in mind that something like 90% of the technological advances of the XX century were born in US labs. So it’s not that broken.
Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by kleiba on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:03AM (#25968115)
Well, if technological advances is the only thing you care for, sure, then go ahead and get rid of stuff like pure maths.

However, are you sure that these advances would not have been made if the US had a different system? Like I argued before, Europe has pretty much copied the system by now but I don't see much in terms of catching up. Take A.I., for instance: completely dominated by the U.S. and China. Europe?

Like in many things in life, copying someone else's successful model is by no means a guarantee that you're going to be successful too. Why? Because your circumstances are usually completely different from whatever you're copying.

Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by mbrodersen on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:31PM (#25984575)
DeepMind is European. ARM is European. The best chip manufacturing companies are in Taiwan. The best car makers are in Europe. The #1 shipping line (Maersk) is in Europe. The language we are speaking right now is European. The modern corporation, including shares, was invented in Europe. Alan Turing was European. Do I really need to go on?
Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by turbonaut on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:15AM (#25968174)
> Take A.I., for instance: completely dominated by the U.S. and China. Europe?

DeepMind?

Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by kleiba on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:28AM (#25968249)
Alphabet is not a university.
Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by quonn on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:47AM (#25968326)
Alphabet bought it. But it‘s a direct result of university research with the same people. Just check the field of reinforcement learning.
Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by kleiba on Saturday January 30, 2021 @08:46AM (#25969014)
True, but a singular example does not save the continent.
Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by disgruntledphd2 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @10:59AM (#25970063)
The first place Facebook opened an AI research centre was Paris.

They certainly didn't pick it for the food ;)

I think if you look at where the researchers are, Europe does really well. As per usual though, this is poorly commercialised.

Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by thethought on Saturday January 30, 2021 @01:58PM (#25971847)
In France software companies classify software development as R&d which I think has major tax upside for US companies with RD in France.
Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by disgruntledphd2 on Sunday January 31, 2021 @02:46AM (#25976969)
Let's be clear. They set up the office in Paris because Yann LeCunn had really good colleagues and students there.

This would seem to militate against a notion that Europe doesn't do AI.

Now, Europe definitely doesn't commercialise AI well, but that's a different point.

Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by mbrodersen on Sunday January 31, 2021 @08:28PM (#25984553)
Not true. Not even close to being true. Unless you very narrowly cherry pick technology advances to be whatever makes your statement true. Even the language we are speaking right now was invented in Europe.
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Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by cm2187 on Saturday January 30, 2021 @07:27AM (#25968520)
On your first point, it is certainly the case that many scientists came from abroad, and in fact that is still the case today, you don't need Nazi persecutions for that. But we are talking about whether the academic system produces game changing research, not where the researchers were born (in fact if anything,the fact that people are attracted by this model is a testimony to its effectiveness).

As for the 90%, agree, that's where I found that number. But do the exercise of listing all the major technological advances you can think of that mattered on the XX century, and I think you will likely end up close to that.

Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by stablenode on Saturday January 30, 2021 @08:29AM (#25968885)
What exactly constitutes a 'major technological advance'? If we're counting Turing Awards by university affiliation, then I believe 90% is probably a good estimate for the US share (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Turing_Award_laureates...). If we're counting Nobel Prizes in Physics, Chemistry and Medicine, it suddenly becomes less clear why this should be true (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_uni...), and if we're counting the number of Fields Medals (the most relevant award given the subject of the post), the numbers seem to suggest that the US contribution to pure mathematics is not as dominant as you might imagine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fields_Medal_winners_b...

In any event, I think this is all getting rather silly. I was simply making the point that historically science in the US has benefited tremendously from having a large number of capable people that were trained within a different system. Where they were born is absolutely irrelevant. A certain W. von Braun was indeed an American, as were his 'major technological advances' that many in the US are rightly proud of, but he was very much a product of German science (I hope you don't find this point controversial).

Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by cambalache on Saturday January 30, 2021 @01:14PM (#25971399)
In Physics the 2 giant contributions from the XX century (Quantum Mechanics and General Relativity) were developed in Europe.

In Mathematics the big highlights of the XX century: the Hilbert Program, the Bourbaki group, computability,the FLT solution were mainly made outside the US.

First satellite? First man in space? USSR

Europe was a big contributor to the first computers: Colossus, Zuse's Z2.

The Germans were pioneers in rocketry and ballistics as it is sadly very well known by the rest of the work.

In Biology: Watson, Crick, Monod,Ian Wilmut,Maynar-Smith made fantastic and foundational contributions

Medicine? Antibiotics,discovery of tetanus vaccine, immunological agents, vitamins, all made outside of the US.

That's not to say that American has not make fantastic contributions, The Apollo program, the invention of the transistor, the invention of the Internet are highlights of American ingenuity and glorious gifts to the rest of the world.

But pretending that all good science is made only in the US and the rest of the world in some sort of scientific backwater is just a sad indictment of the American educational system that formed you.

Re:University of Leicester firing all pure math faculty by znpy on Saturday January 30, 2021 @06:57AM (#25968380)
I upvoted for the finesse of your last line.