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Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by steveBK123 on Thursday January 28, 2021 @10:28PM (#25953467)
Also, I’m not sure exactly how you meant it, so I won’t direct this at you, just generally...

I can’t get over the techbro straw man of the “lockdown” I’ve seen thrown around a lot. First, compared to most of Asia that actually got this virus under control, we have never really had much of a true lockdown here. Second, it’s not the lockdown, its the pandemic. In most areas economic activity dropped off well before any lockdowns and has remained subdued regardless of lockdown duration as long as the virus remains active.

That is - the economic activity drop is more correlated with level of virus outbreak than with any government orders.

In NYC, everyone I know got sent home a week or more before any city/state lockdowns started.

The only time offices were mandated to be closed in NYC was about 8 weeks when we had refrigerated trucks parked outside hospitals acting as mobile morgues, and the National Guard picking up 100s of bodies per day of those who died at home.

For the most part companies have kept people WFH because they can get close to 100% productivity with close to 0% absences due to disease & death.

The mental health angle of more time spent at home, I still think is a wash. For every extrovert craving lording over a conference room of coworkers, there’s an introvert enjoying reduction in forced social interactions. Lots of people actually like their family & enjoy spending more time with them.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by strken on Friday January 29, 2021 @12:11AM (#25954231)
Can't speak to the US lockdown, but Melbourne, Victoria, Australia had restrictive lockdowns (1 hour outdoor exercise with up to 2 people together, 1 daily trip to the supermarket per household, couldn't travel more than 5km from your house, police roadblocks out of the city and out of the state, non-essential industries shut down and some essential ones operating at significantly reduced capacity, 8pm-5am curfew) and was accompanied by a 22% spike in calls to the largest suicide hotline.

Even introverts can miss going outside or seeing their family.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by h0l0cube on Friday January 29, 2021 @03:34AM (#25955297)
> was accompanied by a 22% spike in calls to the largest suicide hotline

A counterfactual: how many people would be affected if their spouse/parent died without the lockdown? These tragedies are unfolding in many countries, and by this misfortune we'll be able to see, in retrospect, the impact of government interventions vs outcomes in a pandemic.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by strken on Friday January 29, 2021 @10:54AM (#25958562)
I'm 100% in support of the lockdown, and Australia hasn't had a locally acquired case for well over a week, but supporting something doesn't mean being blind to the downsides.
Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by steveBK123 on Friday January 29, 2021 @08:15AM (#25956910)
Even when NYC was at 500% daily death rate, there was nothing resembling that level of lockdown. I cannot stress enough how much the US lockdowns resembled nothing like what some of the countries that got the virus under control did.

Groceries restricted number of simultaneous customers, but I could go anytime and as many times as I wished. Restaurants were open for takeout. Parks were open, and capacity was not enforced. Transit was operational. I could get in my car and drive wherever, Uber was running, etc. I’m fairly certain flights were running through this. So people were socializing indoors with friends&family obviously.

Many singles in their 20s I knew went back home to mom&dad, especially if they lived alone.

No curfew. In fact the only curfew we had was a few days during BLM rallies.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by toomanybeersies on Friday January 29, 2021 @10:59PM (#25965894)
However, despite a spike in calls, the actual number of suicides in Victoria was lower in 2020 than previous years [1]

[1] https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/suicides-in-vict...

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by UncleOxidant on Friday January 29, 2021 @11:42AM (#25959227)
And yet those stricter lockdowns in Australia (stricter than in the US) paid off. There are very few cases at this point and little if any community spread.
Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by dnautics on Friday January 29, 2021 @01:16AM (#25954617)
> we have never really had much of a true lockdown here.

And parts of europe had more of a lockdown than the US and the population fatality rate is worse. I wonder if covid just doesn't care about lockdowns; the countries that haven't gotten hit badly are 1) an island. 2) an isolated continent. 3) an island 4) a country that sits on a peninsula that has a hugely militarized impermeable border. and 5) a group of islands. Even within the US, the state that has the lowest per capita covid rate... Is an island. Even at the micro level, the city in the bay area that is one of the least affected... Is an island.

On the other hand the UK has a higher CFR and a higher per population mortality than the US, so...

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by ookdatnog on Friday January 29, 2021 @07:02AM (#25956398)
Covid doesn't care about half-assed, poorly enforced lockdowns. China managed to control the virus pretty well it seems (after completely botching their early handling).

Lockdowns seemed to work in my country early in the pandemic. But in my country many covid measures are reliant on goodwill and voluntary compliance, so if morale drops (as you'd expect with extended lockdown), you expect lockdown effectiveness to drop as well.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by makomk on Friday January 29, 2021 @04:29AM (#25955594)
It's also bad pretty much everywhere in Europe as well. During the first wave, everyone pointed to the Czech Republic as a country that'd done well. They currently have about the same Covid mortality rate as the UK in per-capita terms, last I saw, which had one of the deadlier outbreaks. (Also, the UK isn't much like an island in terms of connectivity to the rest of Europe, and that probably matters more than physical geography.)
Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by steveBK123 on Friday January 29, 2021 @08:25AM (#25956989)
I think to say lockdowns didn’t work raises the question - why did NYC cases & deaths peak only after all white collar workers stayed WFH for 4-6 weeks and the city looked like a ghost town?

It’s clear to me that keeping us out of offices and trains stopped the spread. Unfortunately it had been in the city for 2+ months prior and then ravaged the elderly & medical&front line workers who were out there dealing with it while we got to WFH.

Close, especially indoor contact, without masks, in cooler dry weather appears to be the recipe for disaster here.. ‘ We are seeing it play out in Wave 2 (or 3?) here as people have all gotten very sloppy, even if they are WFH.

From March-October in my social/family circle I knew 0 people with COVID. We were all at home, and people got scared straight pretty quick. Come summer things opened and cases dropped..

From early November to Christmas I knew 30+ people with COVID. Where did they get it? Kids came home from college with it. They went to bars indoors for hours. They dined indoors at restaurants.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by UncleOxidant on Friday January 29, 2021 @11:44AM (#25959265)
> On the other hand the UK has a higher CFR and a higher per population mortality than the US, so...

B.1.1.7 variant. Coming (already in) the US.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by freeone3000 on Friday January 29, 2021 @02:07AM (#25954866)
It also correlates well with countries that habitually wear masks and avoid close personal contact when feeling unwell, which fits the data better as it removes the UK outlier.
Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by herewegoagain2 on Friday January 29, 2021 @05:56AM (#25956065)
So you are saying asymptomatic infections are not an issue?
Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by dehrmann on Friday January 29, 2021 @02:38AM (#25955008)
> compared to most of Asia that actually got this virus under control

Japan and South Korea had relatively big late December/early January waves. Not US-big, but enough that I wouldn't call it "under control."

China is controlling it, but with another round of strict lockdowns.

Taiwan is doing well. So is Singapore. I'm sure their policies are part of the reason, but I suspect the climate helps, too.

Re:Global real interest rates and the ‘suprasecular’ decline... by yoz-y on Friday January 29, 2021 @05:57AM (#25956078)
> Lots of people actually like their family & enjoy spending more time with them.

Let's not forget that there are a lot of people who don't live with families or in couple. For them (I am in this case too), most of social interactions are with colleagues during the day and friends in evenings or weekends. Both of these options are at minimum severely hindered.