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Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by Barrin92 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:13PM (#25924175)
>are you prepared to have these tools fall into the wrong hands?

Yes, because society has a plurality of institutions that constrain power. Restrictions (even speech restrictions themselves) are subject to the court of public opinion (we're talking about them right now), there's the judiciary, political opposition and so on.

This argument never had any pull for me for the same reason I'm against abolishing the police or abolishing surveillance or anything else. Power, even in the hands of people I don't like, can't be exercised arbitrarily.

Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by bawolff on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:34PM (#25924348)
I find this argument confusing. There is plenty of historical precedent for tyrany overcoming public opinion, judiciary, politics. I don't think the current topic is an example of this, but as a general statment on power i find this contrary to my experience.

You're basically saying, I don't worry about abuse of power because there will always be some check on it, no matter how ineffectual. That just flies in the face of every time someone managed to use their power to overcome whatever checks were in place.

And this is like a constant theme in history. All the checks on Ceaser's power didn't prevent the Roman Republic from falling.

Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by peytn on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:30PM (#25924304)
Aren’t those institutions sort of circumventable by lying? Can’t I just say “Barrin92 is a bastard, so I’ve banned them from speaking. Look no closer lest I ban you, too.” Feels like we might be better off in the long run by agreeing on ground rules ahead of time and then sticking to them, no?
Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by opendysphoria on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:36PM (#25924360)
>Aren’t those institutions sort of circumventable by lying

No

Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by emptyparadise on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:20PM (#25924231)
What country do you live in?
Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by Barrin92 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:27PM (#25924277)
Born and lived most of my life in Germany, now UK. I'd be willing to make that claim for much worse governed countries.

My birth place influences my position a lot. After the end of the war we enshrined the principle of 'militant democracy' in our basic law. Giving the state and its institutions the explicit power to deal with threats to the constitutional order, not repeating the mistakes of the weakened government of the Weimar period that gave rise to unchecked extremist forces.

Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by bawolff on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:37PM (#25924367)
Isn't that a counter argument to your point though? Like you're saying here that the weak weimar republic wasn't strong enough to check the extremist forces and hence that sufficient checks dont always exist.
Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by Barrin92 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @11:49PM (#25924432)
My point is basically that I'm much more afraid of insufficient checks on radicalism and inability of society to deal with extremism than I am just with this abstract idea of tyranny.

To bring it back to the topic of the US and Facebook. To me the censorship is not a sign of authoritarianism or anything, but lack of strong institutions. In the face of rising extremism and disorder Facebook effectively has to step in and do something to their best ability because in general the US has very few tools to deal with this at a democratic level.

When I see pictures of someone dressed as a shaman on the dais of the senate and lawmakers cowering behind benches it's very weird to me to draw the conclusion that the pressing issue is too much authority and not enough freedom of expression.

Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by refurb on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @12:23AM (#25924630)
“Face of rising extremism” is just your recency bias showing and demonstrates the power of the media to shape our perceptions. There are many periods in the past where the US was experiencing far more extremism and violence than today.
Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by bawolff on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @04:33AM (#25926103)
The US had a literal civil war at one point; the bar is low. Things don't have to be the worst ever to still be concerning.
Re:Silicon Valley is shutting down speech loopholes. Latest ... by refurb on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @06:05AM (#25926736)
I see your point, but you can just go back to the 20th century. Anarchists bombing Wall Street in the 20's, racial and antiwar riots (and bombings) during the 60's and 70's. Right wing militias blowing up federal buildings in the 90's.

Obviously you don't want to dismiss a growing problem, but things seem much more manageable today than during these past incidents.