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Re:Postgres scaling advice by zdragnar on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @09:42AM (#25916234)
In big enough organizations, it is very easy to lose track of who owns what, especially when it is those little ad-hoc internal tools. Manually managing the infrastructure for them is a recipe for them to become permanently enshrined in the wasteland of "services we think we use, but do not maintain because we don't remember who needed it or put it up or how to configure it".

K8s isn't the only answer, but if you are already using it for your large applications, it isn't much work to reuse the existing tooling and infrastructure, and now you st least have the dockerfile as a reference if nothing else.

OTOH, if you have an existing tooling setup / pipeline that is not K8s, there isn't a good reason to use it for a small application.

Re:Postgres scaling advice by waynesonfire on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @01:10PM (#25919200)
docker and k8s adoption can force a company that over years has developed and perfected a standard practice of deploying application, with a half-ass'd solution that ends up solving the wrong problems and costing way more. The "shipping beats perfecting" mantra is very much at play here. This is due to the amount of time it would take to achieve parity. At the end of the day, the new solution ends up looking like a step-back.

Such a practice combined with the mentality that software engineers should do their own dev-ops can easily lead to an environment of spaghetti applications where every developer working on the new platform does things slightly different because the replacement solution wasn't complete and had to be addressed by countless band-aids by engineers across the band of talent.

Furthermore, for the features that were able to achieve parity, you're now forcing your entire organization to re-learn the new development process. The docs our abysmal and the software engineers that developed the original solution have moved on since the hard work of "productionalization" remains and they're not interested in that.

Re:Postgres scaling advice by akiselev on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @04:12PM (#25921113)
> docker and k8s adoption can force a company that over years has developed and perfected a standard practice of deploying application, with a half-ass'd solution that ends up solving the wrong problems and costing way more.

docker and k8s adoption can also force a company that over years has developed and perfected a half-ass'd solution to deploying applications, with a single(-ish) source of truth that ends up solving the right organizational problems instead of the wrong technical ones (and ends up costing way more, at least in the short term).

Re:Postgres scaling advice by corty on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @10:13AM (#25916605)
Having a Dockerfile that copies a few binary blobs into an age-old distro image isn't an improvement, it's a huge liability. And most of that stuff that no one knows anything about anymore is like that. Same as with an old VM or PM.

I'd rather have that old crap as a physical machine. Why? Because the hardware lifetime "naturally" limits the lifetime of such applications. If the hardware dies, it forces a decision to spend some money to keep it running or throw it away, which, given that hardware is expensive, usually results in throwing it away.

Re:Postgres scaling advice by vlovich123 on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @12:20PM (#25918501)
Set up your docker file to be part of your CI so that your binary blobs are built from source with regularity? That’s typically the solution I’ve seen work well. Manually maintained stuff (especially for stuff that may not be the thing everyone is primarily doing) generally doesn’t scale well without automation (speaking as someone who’s seen organizations grow). This is also true of “getting started” guides. Can’t tell you how much maintenance and run time I’ve saved converting those wikis to Python scripts.
Re:Postgres scaling advice by corty on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @12:41PM (#25918816)
Yes, of course. That would be ideal. That's what we do for everything we can control.

But as someone in the IT dept., far too often you get some container that either was built by someone who long left the company or an external consultant who got paid to never return. Sourcecode is usually unavailable, and if it is available, will only build on that one laptop that the consultant used. The IT department gets left with the instruction "run it, it was expensive" and "no, you don't get any budget to fix it". That results in the aforementioned containers of doom...

Yes, I'm bitter and cynical. Yes, I'm leaving as soon as I can :)

Re:Postgres scaling advice by striking on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @01:53PM (#25919702)
I hate to raise a seemingly obvious point, but this doesn't seem like a problem with Docker.
Re:Postgres scaling advice by giantrobot on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @12:49PM (#25918914)
In theory that works. In practice it rarely does. Docker et al gained popularity because they made it way more practical for projects to be managed as the world works rather than as it should be, for good or ill. Before Docker it was moving old applications to VMs and before that it was running them in chroot horror shows.
Re:Postgres scaling advice by yowlingcat on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @05:58PM (#25922034)
> the hardware lifetime "naturally" limits the lifetime of such applications

Oh, my sweet summer child. Of all the things that "naturally" limits the lifetime of such applications, that is not it. Consider the case of the mainframes running the US banking system, for example.

Re:Postgres scaling advice by wdb on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @04:47PM (#25921448)
Can still remember the multinational were wanted to host the webapplciation we developed from them at their data centre. They wanted to charge us (not the business unit for some odd reason) nearly €20.000 per year to host a RoR web application.

Ended up, hosting it ourselves, and in the last year they were paying €100k per year for it. As we would just sell the same setup for each deployment for their customers. They probably been cheaper off to host it themselves.