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Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by athenot on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:09PM (#25909621)
Since I voted in Georgia on these machines, the process is the following:

- get ID validated & ability to vote

- get an initialized smart card

- insert in polling machine, fill out stuff

- submit, get printout from printer

- scan printout into a machine

- return smart card

At the polling places I was at (we had a runoff), the staff + signage was emphasizing to check results on printout.

The printing and the scanning felt terribly wasteful but as it turned out, it became a precious way to audit. The bonus is that the printout is normalized, not some person's handwriting that could be subject to misinterpretation.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by pdonis on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:15PM (#25909690)
So you take the printout from one machine and insert it into another to be scanned? I agree that would satisfy auditability, since you can look at the printout and make sure it's correct.

Were these Dominion voting machines?

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by enzanki_ars on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:35PM (#25909903)
In Ohio, we used the same Dominion voting systems with the same process:

Poll worker validates proper ID, get ballot code for your precinct, walk to voting system, poll worker enters the precinct, voter validates info on screen, voter votes on the touch screen, system prints out choices, walk to scanner system, vote gets scanned, scanner stores those ballots in it's tray in case need for audit.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by djrogers on Monday January 25, 2021 @07:54PM (#25911082)
I feel so disconnected from this process here in California - I haven't been asked for ID to vote ever. AFAIK, we're not allowed to verify ID here...
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by CydeWeys on Monday January 25, 2021 @09:05PM (#25911589)
It's a good thing not doing it. ID verification disenfranchises way more people than fraudulent votes prevented.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by pdonis on Monday January 25, 2021 @10:18PM (#25912059)
> ID verification disenfranchises

How so? How many eligible voters don't already have government issued IDs?

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by jcranmer on Monday January 25, 2021 @11:36PM (#25912592)
The most common government-issued ID is a driver's license, to the point that it can sometimes be hard to get a government ID that isn't a driver's license. So anyone who can't drive has an uphill battle--predominantly blind people, as well as poor people who live in the inner city where car ownership is infeasibly expensive. Another commonish case is tribal reservations, where tribal documentation is usually sufficient, but the state might not consider a tribal ID sufficient to vote.

The statistics I've seen for people who lack valid voter ID is somewhere in the region of 10-15%. Unsurprisingly, this tends to be concentrated among groups that tend to be more reliably Democratic than Republican (something like 25% of African Americans lack valid ID), which is why voter ID is often a dog whistle for disenfranchising certain voters.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by pdonis on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @02:27AM (#25913411)
> it can sometimes be hard to get a government ID that isn't a driver's license

As far as I know every state will issue a picture ID, similar to a driver's license but which doesn't confer driving privileges. to someone who doesn't drive.

If the argument is that people who can't drive will find it more difficult to make it to the office that gives out government issued IDs, the obvious solutions are (1) put more of those offices in places like inner cities, convenient to public transportation, and (2) have the political activists who spend so much time complaining about disenfranchisement do some actual work instead and provide people transportation to and from the offices.

> the state might not consider a tribal ID sufficient to vote

The solution to that is obvious too: either fix the state law or fix the tribal ID requirements so they meet existing state law.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by enigmo on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @01:07AM (#25913070)
I wonder why the interested parties don't just offer to pay for ID cards. Seems like this would solve both problems, but perhaps I'm missing something obvious.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by Akronymus on Monday January 25, 2021 @09:49PM (#25911840)
I thought that ID was already basically required to be able to live a acceptable life in the US.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by Bjartr on Tuesday January 26, 2021 @12:12AM (#25912819)
That isn't mutually exclusive with the idea a non-trivial number of people lack them.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by jffry on Monday January 25, 2021 @08:44PM (#25911419)
I don't know which company makes them, but the machines at my polling site in Washington DC are like this. You fill in your ballot on the machine, which has clear visual feedback as you go along and helps with procedural things like "pick up to 2".

When you're done, the machine prints a paper ballot and asks you to inspect it. You then click OK on the machine, take the ballot from your booth over to a separate counting machine, and deposit it there.

It's really quite pleasant, there is a strong audit trail, and the machines afford a wide variety of assistive options (large font, headphone jack for audio, different languages, etc)

Also I had the option to get a printed ballot and fill it out witih a pen if I wanted to.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by pilotneko on Monday January 25, 2021 @05:33PM (#25909876)
A very similar process in Tennessee. I'm not sure if the machine was made by Dominion, but I had a chance to review the printout before scanning. The printout appeared to pass through the scanner and into a locked container beneath, presumably for actual paper audits.
[dead]
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by javagram on Monday January 25, 2021 @06:56PM (#25910623)
Why are you talking about mail-in ballots in a thread about Dominion Voting Systems?

Mail-in ballots work the same way they have since 1864. You fill out a paper ballot and mail it back.

> Biden only won 16% of counties. Only a few key counties need to be targeted to flip a national election.

16% of counties - when more than half the US population lives in just 4.6% of the counties. Remember that many counties are nearly empty and have few voters. Due to the rural/urban political divide, sparsely populated rural counties typically vote for the GOP in recent elections while densely populated suburbs and cities lean more towards the Democrats.

Biden’s numbers in general were similar to Hillary’s in 2016, but he gained ground in the suburbs due to white educated voters fleeing from Trump after the last 4 years. There is no indication that a “few key counties” were targeted - the shift was seen in all 50 states. Compare Texas suburban county votes in 2016 to 2020.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by throwaway31831 on Monday January 25, 2021 @07:06PM (#25910683)
> Why are you talking about mail-in ballots in a thread about Dominion Voting Systems?

Mail-in ballots get counted by machines.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by javagram on Monday January 25, 2021 @07:24PM (#25910838)
The machine count of mail-in ballots is checked by a hand count audit. For instance, in Georgia every ballot was recounted by humans to confirm the accuracy of the machine count.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by throwaway31831 on Monday January 25, 2021 @07:55PM (#25911097)
The hand count didn't address any of the risks people were actually worried about. It could not have caught either of the types of fraud I mentioned above, for example.

Read the interview I posted with Philip Stark, Berkeley Math Dean who is probably the leading expert on election auditing having designed the procedures for conducting risk-limiting audits in many states. He explains this in detail.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by mrzimmerman on Monday January 25, 2021 @10:22PM (#25912097)
So scanning machines, the same ones we’ve used for decades, are compromised too? And that doesn’t show up in any of the routine audits that happen in a lot of states after an election?

What would you have people do? Maybe have the volunteers just scan the ballot by hand and then write down on paper the vote totals?

The argument just boils down to “machines are scary to me” and that isn’t a good enough reason to abandon progress that is routinely shown to work just fine.

Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by qwerty12345678 on Monday January 25, 2021 @08:52PM (#25911478)
Debating with the left on this is like debating with a brick wall. You try to have a logical conversation about the basic security aspects involved here and they respond by calling you a conspiracy theorist and change the underlying subject.
Re:Dominion Voting Systems Sues Rudy Giuliani by dang on Wednesday January 27, 2021 @05:42PM (#25935151)
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Creating accounts to do that with will eventually get your main account banned as well, so please don't.

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