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Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by simonh on Friday January 22, 2021 @10:59AM (#25872754)
Price per seat to NASA on Soyuz was $90m each, while per seat on Falcon 9 it works out at about $55m under the current contract. Bear in mind that contract was signed before SpaceX had recovered any first stage boosters, so that's not taken into account in the pricing yet. Soyuz certainly had a good run though.
Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by sudosysgen on Friday January 22, 2021 @11:16AM (#25872921)
This was just Roscomos nickel and diming NASA. The actual cost per seat to Roscomos from the factory is around 19-22 million.
Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by simonh on Friday January 22, 2021 @11:20AM (#25872970)
Ok, I suppose on those terms we'd need to know the real cost to SpaceX after they have recovered the first stages and used them for a dozen satellite launches each. The fact is on commercial terms SpaceX has been undercutting the Russians for years now, and were doing so even before first stage and fairing recovery.

Edit: It looks like NASA has already agreed to allow SpaceX to re-use first stages and Crew Dragon capsules for crew flights as well, starting this year.

Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by sudosysgen on Friday January 22, 2021 @11:25AM (#25873024)
We really don't. Roscomos doesn't make the rockets, it's the Russian NASA. The cost here is because of the middle man and the US having been dependent.

Be that as it may, today in 2021, the cheapest and most reliable way we have to send someone to LEO is to make a Soyuz and use that to send them.

Maybe eventually SpaceX will catch up in cost. But in 2021 it hasn't yet.

Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by simonh on Friday January 22, 2021 @01:49PM (#25874731)
I doubt making a Soyuz and throwing it away is cheaper than building an F9 and reusing the first stage and booster 10 times. At that point the second stage would have to cost almost as much as an entire Soyuz stack.
Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by sudosysgen on Friday January 22, 2021 @02:00PM (#25874872)
Making a Soyuz is really, really cheap. Something around 5 million dollars for the rocket. Most of the cost in a Soyuz launch isn't from building the rocket.

If it is the case then we will see SpaceX charging NASA less than a Soyuz launch amortized over the number of passengers per launch. But in 2021 it still isn't the case.

Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by analognoise on Friday January 22, 2021 @12:13PM (#25873610)
So you're arguing it's cheaper in the case where nobody openly knows Roscosmo's numbers, nobody can obtain the services at those numbers, then comparing the cost at the FACTORY for Soyuz to the price of LAUNCH for SpaceX - before accounting for using the same rocket TEN TIMES - and still claiming Soyuz is cheaper?

Edit: Parent filled in data below, it looks like Soyuz in cheaper. :)

Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by sudosysgen on Friday January 22, 2021 @12:45PM (#25874046)
We actually can optain the numbers. Roscomos is a public agency. They buy the rockets from the Progress join venture, and a public the exact cost of both the rocket and the launch. The cost of only the rocket is around 5 million dollars.

The total cost in 2018 for a Soyuz launch to Roscosmos is 3.5 to 4 billion 2018 rubles, which is around 20-23 million dollars per seat.

The cost is kind of at the factory because Roscomos partially builds some systems of Soyuz. But in the end it costs Roscosmos 20 million to put someone into space using a Soyuz, and it costs NASA 55 million to do it via SpaceX.

I'm comparing the cost of launching an astronaut to the ISS. For Soyuz, since the rocket is not reusable, this is the cost of the rocket plus capsule plus payload plus préparation, tracking, etc.. For SpaceX, it is just the cost of their launch. Soyuz is simply so well engineered that it still is cheaper, even though the SpaceX rocket is reusable.

Re:Android Ported to RISC-V by simonh on Saturday January 23, 2021 @01:38AM (#25880201)
> even though the SpaceX rocket is reusable.

As I pointed out already, the original NASA contract was signed long before SpaceX recovered a single core. Tose prices don't take into account reusability at all. SpaceX already has two pre-flown crew rated first stages ready to fly again. NASA has recently approved using them, and refurbished capsules, for upcoming missions. The cost calculation today is nothing like 2014 when SpaceX signed Commercial Crew.