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Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by openasocket on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @01:28PM (#25850020)
It's not just science, I can think of an example from pure mathematics. Cantor's work showing the uncountability of the real numbers was derided by prominent members of the mathematical community for decades. This despite the fact that he was able to boil down his argument into a proof so simple it's taught in introductory undergraduate classes. Now, this was at a time when mathematicians were still trying to rigorously define set theory and ground mathematics on a foundation of logic, but still it's a relatively simple and understandable proof. I think the moral of the story is that people are stubborn and are capable of disagreeing about just about everything.
Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by resource0x on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @04:32PM (#25852284)
Bad example. Cantor's theory is controversial to this day.

"Classical logic was abstracted from the mathematics of finite sets and their subsets …. Forgetful of this limited origin, one afterwards mistook that logic for something above and prior to all mathematics, and finally applied it, without justification, to the mathematics of infinite sets. This is the Fall and original sin of Cantor's set theory."

-- Hermann Weyl

Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by openasocket on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:37PM (#25853362)
I wouldn't really consider Weyl as an example of a modern day critic, considering he died in 1955. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a modern mathematician that rejects the diagonalization argument, outside of finitists, which are pretty far from the mainstream. I mean the proof that there is no bijection from a set to its power set is pretty straightforward and constructive. I'm pretty sure the proof is valid even in intuitionist logic.
Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by cambalache on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @11:46PM (#25855511)
By whom? Almost all mainstream mathematicians rightfully lionize Cantor's main contributions, as David Hilbert so eloquently put it: "No one shall expel us from the paradise Cantor has created for us" Aus dem Paradies, das Cantor uns geschaffen, soll uns niemand vertreiben können
Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by alisonkisk on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @06:27PM (#25853281)
Cantor proved that R, the set of all reals, cannot be countable. That was never controversial. What's controversial is claiming that R (or any uncountable set) exists, as no one has rigorously proved without adding an axiom.
Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by openasocket on Wednesday January 20, 2021 @07:07PM (#25853616)
What axiom do you have to add, are you talking about the axiom of infinity, defining the set of natural numbers? Because you do need that, but without that wouldn't even be able to define uncountability. After that, you can define the reals using Dedekind cuts or Cauchy sequences, which was known at the time (I believe Cantor actually worked on the Cauchy sequence construction). But there's an even simpler uncountable set: the power set of the natural numbers. Super easy to define, and the diagonalization argument falls right out.
Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by GoblinSlayer on Thursday January 21, 2021 @02:45AM (#25856516)
To construct R you need to repeat Dedekind cut uncountable number of times, i.e. you need to iterate over all real numbers, which would make them countable.
Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by openasocket on Thursday January 21, 2021 @10:09AM (#25859571)
You don't need any sort of "repetition" of Dedekind cuts to construct the real numbers, it's actually fairly straightforward. The set of all Dedekind cuts is a subset of the power set of rational numbers (i.e. each Dedekind cut is a set of rational numbers) satisfying the following properties: for each Dedekind cut A

1. A is not the empty set

2. A is not the set of all rational numbers

3. A is closed downwards, meaning if x is in A and y < x, then y is in A

4. A has no greatest element, meaning for all x in A, there is a y in A such that y > x.

And each Dedekind cut is in one-to-one correspondence with a real number. You can define the usual arithmetic operations on them, show that every rational number has a corresponding Dedekind cut (for any rational q, we have {x in Q | y < q } as the corresponding cut). I haven't seen a proof of the uncountability of Dedekind cuts using the diagonalization argument, but you can prove there is a one-to-one correspondence between Dedekind cuts and Cauchy sequences of rational numbers, which is another construction of the reals. And there is a fairly straightforward proof that those are uncountable using diagonalization.

But as you can see, you don't need any sort of repetition to do the construction, it's just a set of sets of rational numbers satisfying a few simple properties. For more information, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Construction_of_the_real_numbe...

Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by GoblinSlayer on Thursday January 21, 2021 @04:38PM (#25864642)
So you just assume that the set exists.
Re:Have we already been visited by aliens? by openasocket on Thursday January 21, 2021 @08:23PM (#25867054)
Well I assume the set of natural numbers exist, by the axiom of infinity. From there you can construct the set of rationals. And you can construct the power set of the set of rationals, by the axiom of the power set. And the set of all Dedekind cuts is a subset of the power set of rationals satisfying those properties listed above, which we can construct by the axiom schema of separation. All of this is Zermelo-Frankel set theory, don't even need the axiom of choice.