http://www.paulgraham.com/founders.html
and also this:
http://www.paulgraham.com/good.html
Combined, the message is: focus on the high bits of good. If someone establishes a clinic in a poor country and saves people's lives, I'm not going to hold it against them if they do it with supplies that fell off a truck.
I actually have read those. I admit, part of my reaction was purely personal. I want to found a company so much it hurts. I'm smart, resourceful, creative, and determined. But I wouldn't say I'm used to getting my way, and breaking rules -- even in service of a higher goal -- makes me very nervous. (Think Hermione Granger.) So reading this was like getting hit in the gut. Not that it will stop me, but it highlighted how important the emotional aspects to founderhood are and how far I still have to go.
I've seen this trap with a lot of people who did well in school. For 12 formative years you're rewarded for performing tasks to spec and following rules, and you grow up and find that the things you really want to do involve transcending all the traits that got you where you are. That's the element of Google I'm referring to, I suppose. They make almost a cult of academic success, and for some people that was a kind of shining hope. And you, frankly, fit right into that. So to hear you say that guts might matter more in the end than brains hurts, even though I know you're right.
Andy Rubin (Android): "That's the way Google works, don't ask for permission for an idea, just go and do it. And then, when you are way beyond the point of no return, you're like, 'I need $200 million'"
Wesley Chan (Google Toolbar, Google Analytics): After Larry Page told him the Toolbar/Popup blocker was the "dumbest thing I've ever heard", Chan, a 'lowly' Associate Product Manager at the time, surreptitiously installed it on Page's computer and waited for him to mention how much faster his browser was running.
Paul Buchheit (Gmail, Later Friendfeed, Facebook, YC): IIRC he was the one who pushed for putting ads in Gmail based on the content of emails. When Google deployed this, it generated significant controversy and almost everyone considered it 'naughty' to say the least. Today, Gmail is the only place other than a search engine where I (and likely many others) click on any ads. The ads were important because providing Gigabytes of storage to millions of users for free is not scalable without generating revenue.
Google even tried to formalize naughtiness by making 20% projects, usually done as naughty skunkworks projects, part of the rules.
Google walks into this minefield and says "You know, we're going to crawl and cache everything, then exploit the data in it for our own selfish commercial purposes." And it worked!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Book_Search_Settlement_A...
I also think Google broke and still breaks rules, just your example is not very good. Interesting that this reply of yours is upvoted over paul, pg and tlb in this thread.
So you would think that there would be dozens of papers that analyzed the trolley problem from the point of view of what makes an algorithm ethical or unethical, but this doesn't seem to be the case. (E.g. why not imagine a universe where the people on each track had to somehow bid via differing auction mechanisms as to which direction the train went, why even imagine a person at the switch at all?)
I am somewhat interested in questions like whether or not it's morally acceptable to lie to a system or a (non-conscious) robot. At least on the surface this doesn't violate any of Kant's moral objections to deception. That is, Kant said (more or less) that the reason why lying is unethical is that it deprives the other person of their ability to make a rational decision, and our rationality is part of what makes us human, so lying is unethical because it deprives others of their humanity. So e.g. is it unethical to lie to about your age on a porn site? It might be, but if it is then we'd an entirely new framework to justify that sort of thing.
It almost seems like based on the power imbalances between people and algorithms, and the traditional justification against lying, it would almost be morally virtuous to teach your children to lie, as long as they're lying to a machine and not a person. (Of course a machine could be composed of people who are following an algorithm when interacting with you, but they still aren't making any sort of autonomous decisions for themselves.)
Anyway this type of problem is a little different than the problem of what makes the systemic design of a social system ethical or unethical, but they're both just different sides of the same coin.
I'm sure there were otherwise nice people that were Nazi soldiers. And there are probably a few nasty people who work for Google to create products millions of people love.
As social systems, as you call them, grow larger and more connected it may make the ethical positions of systems more important. The problem is that most corporations are inherently amoral, and governments almost always think they are the good guys.
Nb. I think that recent discussions have put a moderate damper on this, and perhaps the newer ranking algo (in which flagging has greater weight I think?) has played a part, but the problem remains.
More likely, what's actually needed is a balance. And, interestingly, the kind of person that makes a good entrepreneur is probably on the psycopathic side of normal. A very nice article in the Guardian made this point at the weekend - http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/may/21/jon-ronson-how-t...
If you limit your statement to "all the rules of the society in which you live", I'm not sure your statement is true. What do you think of Oskar Schindler? Womanizer, cheat, Nazi, fraud, and traitor. Yet he saved the lives of hundreds of Jews during the holocaust, and ended up as the hero of a movie.
If I break a rule, I still can stare at myself in the mirror, and I will even be able to tell this to my children when they will be grown-ups. If I happen to break one of my moral principles, it will be another story.
This is nothing new, Confucius taught this long time ago already.
If you followed PG's record, you'd know how strong an advocate he is that startups be good.
For example - Zynga selling offers (for credits) with very fine print that signs you up for paid services. And the fine print is so convoluted/tiny most people don't read it. Helping or hurting consumers?
- Facebook hiring a PR firm to highlight questionable privacy practices by Google. Helping users or hurting Google?
- Subprime mortgages. Helping or hurting homeowners?
You're assuming your conclusion. Punctiliously following convention doesn't make you good. It just safely ensconces you near the mean. Not a promising place for startup founders to reside.
Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes is naughty. He's not evil or even "morally-flexible".
English isn't a computer program - there are many interpretations possible. I suspect that they didn't even see the other interpretation of their language around security until someone pointed it out to them.
Tech is so hopeless ingrained with the speculative investment market, they've adopted the worst biproducts of it.
Twit is Leo's tech shows..which are still tech focused. Twist is Jason Calacanis' shows which have a VC/Angel 50% focus.
However, I wonder when we begin to cross the fine-line between naughtiness, white-lies, small-rule breaking and moral flexibility to privacy-violating, scamming, propaganda spreading and even law-breaking actions.
In a world where one will do anything to win, it seems all too easy to fall by the wayside towards morally-questionable deeds.
Think about the difference between success in the military versus success in a small business. In the Army, a protocol faux pas or a single ill-considered statement can implode your career path. Understanding of and adherence to the rules is job 1.
In a startup mode, you can ignore conventions/rules, because those things are often not relevant to a tiny company. That doesn't mean that you have carte blanche to rob a liquor store -- but it does mean that you don't need approval from a VP to fill out a 4 page expense report to buy a bottle of booze for a client.
I think much of what's excepted in today's business environment can be summarized by the following statement:
"It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is to get permission."
This logic has been used to justify all sorts of questionable actions. It's what Pincus was speaking to when he said, "we broke every rule in the book" or when Facebook unilaterally changes a once private profile to a public one. Heck, I'd even characterize Google's Buzz in this category.
Businesses do this all the time. I don't necessarily blame them. Most times it's easier and quicker to simply execute on an idea and see if there's any backlash. Much of innovation comes about this way so I do see the value in it.
But I also see the negative consequences of it.
I have to disagree. Some Armed Forces employ quite different type of organization, called Auftragstaktik.
Is it immoral to gather personal data and then share it on the internet? (Facebook personal profiles going public.)
Is it immoral to pay a PR firm to portray a competitor in a negative light if it means highlighting their questionable practices? (Facebook hiring a PR firm to highlight Google Social.)
Is it immoral to characterize a service you offer one way while leaving important details to fine print or convoluted text? (Zynga's lead gen offers, DropBox security.)
<edit>
I think this is the quote I remember...:
from http://paulgraham.com/notnot.html
"There's nothing wrong with being unsure. If you're a hacker thinking about starting a startup and hesitating before taking the leap, you're part of a grand tradition. Larry and Sergey seem to have felt the same before they started Google, and so did Jerry and Filo before they started Yahoo. In fact, I'd guess the most successful startups are the ones started by uncertain hackers rather than gung-ho business guys."
“There are some people who just get what they want in the world. If you want to start a startup you have to be one of those people. You can’t be passive and wishy-washy.”
Does wishy-washy mean something other than unsure?
Some people are born with some of these factors, but the truth of the matter is that persistence matters most and if you are persistent most other things can fall into place or be balanced by other factors.
Lots of people are as smart as the Google founders, lots of people have similar educational background. Superstar co-founders, much as athletes, are people too. The major difference between them and you is that they continuously try to do the best they can do and do not quit when the going gets tough.
naughty --> mischievous
entitled --> relentless and determinedThink of it this way. As children we all needed to compete for the attention and resources of our parents, otherwise we would have starved. So typically the oldest child uses the strategy of being charismatic, in order to manipulate the parents into paying attention to it. The the second child comes along, but by this point there is no way it's ever going to out compete the oldest child on the axis of charisma, because the oldest child just has too much of a head start. So the second child often acts kind of sickly and pathetic, again as a different strategy for manipulating the parents into providing attention and resources.
The point is that in order to succeed in a startup, you need to be well versed in a variety of these strategies in order to get other people to help you. Otherwise you're not going to get any of the resources you need, because you're way too small and pathetic to be worth caring about based on any intrinsic measure of worth.
They want these types of people because they have the highest chance at success when failure is the norm.
http://www.schneier.com/essay-306.html
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/05/technology/google_cnet/
https://www.recordedfuture.com/ ( Google and In-Q-Tel both major investors )
http://thestockmarketwatch.com/stock-market-news/recent-even...
http://xsreviews.co.uk/2011/05/google-to-lose-500m-to-antitr...
Could keep going for a while. My point is simple: It is easy to forget the "bad" when everyone focuses on the "good"
The closest the is the anti-trust settlement, but the reporting around that is kind of murky. I've never seen a proper report of exactly what it related to.
The others are arguably good. For example, the Schneier article is about how Google has a interface to Gmail to allow it to retrieve data when it receives a warrant. That was what got hacked, but I think saying that makes it evil is a pretty long stretch.