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Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by inglor_cz on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:16PM (#25766696)
Nice, but requires 10 K temperature - not very practical.

Once this can be done at the temperature of liquid nitrogen, that will be a true revolution. The difference in cost of producing liquid nitrogen and liquid helium is enormous.

Alternatively, such servers could be theoretically stored in the permanently shaded craters of the lunar South Pole, but at the cost of massive ping.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by gnulinux on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:21PM (#25766755)
If the throughput is fast enough 3+3=6 seconds latency doesn't really sound that bad. There are websites with that kind of lag. You can't use to build a chat app, but you can use it as a cloud for general computing.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by mindvirus on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:20PM (#25767460)
Fun aside I learned about recently: we don't actually know if the speed of light is the same in all directions. So it could be 5+1=6 seconds or some other split.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_speed_of_light

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by faeyanpiraat on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:44PM (#25768354)
There is a Veritasium video really fun to watch which exmplains with examples why you cannot measure one way speed of light: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTn6Ewhb27k
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by physicles on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @08:52PM (#25770788)
Yes! In uni I had this idea for a program that would triangulate where lightning struck by having multiple computers across campus listening for thunder, then measuring the difference in arrival times of the thunder. Like GPS in reverse.

Soon I realized I’d need the computers’ clocks to be as in-sync as possible, which in turn requires one-way latency calculations. I spent an hour diagramming with pencil and paper until I convinced myself it was mathematically impossible or I wasn’t clever enough to find the solution.

Looking back, I was more worried than I should’ve been about this (wired latencies are usually far less than 5ms, which for sound is ~1.5m) and less worried than I should’ve been about the fact that thunder isn’t anything close to a point source of sound.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by abandonliberty on Thursday January 14, 2021 @01:13AM (#25772760)
Wired latencies are more limiting than you would expect! Light in glass in 2/3rds of that in a vacuum. At 2*10^8 the longest straight arc on earth would take 100ms to traverse in fibre optic cable.

Latency caused by the speed of light is a tangible and impactful factor in our lives!

It's amazing that something so incomprehensible (3x10^8 m/s) can actually be experienced.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by hoseja on Thursday January 14, 2021 @04:48AM (#25774312)
PTP/White rabbit.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by inglor_cz on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:22PM (#25766766)
Yes, for general computing, that would be feasible.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by juancampa on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:46PM (#25767057)
> The difference in cost of producing liquid nitrogen and liquid helium is enormous.

Quick google search yields: $3.50 for 1L of He vs $0.30 for 1L of H2. So roughly 10 times more expensive.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by tedsanders on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:54PM (#25767151)
That price is more than a decade out of date. Helium has been about 10x that the past half decade. I used to pay about $3,000 per 100L dewar a few years ago. Sounds like that price was still common in 2020: https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.6.2.2020060...

Plus, liquid helium is produced as a byproduct of some natural gas extraction. If you needed volumes beyond that production, which seems likely if you wanted to switch the world's data centers to it, you'd be stuck condensing it from the atmosphere, which is far more expensive than collecting it from natural gas. I haven't done the math. I'm curious if someone else has.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by mdturnerphys on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:11PM (#25767334)
That's the cost for one-time use of the helium. If you're running a liquefier the cost is much lower, since you're recycling the helium, but it still "costs" ~400W to cool 1W at 4K.
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by pushrax on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @11:11PM (#25771879)
In other words, the helium is used to move heat around, and isn’t lost. It’s like the refrigerant in your air conditioner, except that it needs several stages of pre-cooling.

Initial cost is high but running it should mostly just incur energy costs if it’s well designed.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by inglor_cz on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:50PM (#25767104)
Nitrogen is N2, though. Liquid nitrogen is cheaper than liquid hydrogen.

I was able to find "1 gallon of liquid nitrogen costs just $0.5 in the storage tank". That would be about $0.12 per 1L of N2.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by monopoledance on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @03:45PM (#25767737)
Edit: Didn't read the OP carefully... Am idiot. Anyway, maybe someone reads something new to them.

Nitrogen won't get you below 10°K, tho. It's solid below 63°K (-210°C).

You know things are getting expensive, when superconductors are rated "high temperature", when they can be cooled with LN2...

Helium (He2) is _practically finite, as we can't get it from the atmosphere in significant amounts (I think fusion reactor may be a source in the future), and it's critically important for medical imaging (each MRI 35k$/year) and research. You also can really store it long term, which means there are limits to retrieval/recycling, too. I sincerely hope we won't start blowing it away for porn and Instagram.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by faeyanpiraat on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:47PM (#25768375)
I'm no physicist, but wouldn't you need some kind of medium to efficiently transfer the heat away?

On the moon you have no atmosphere to do it with radiators with fans, so I gues you would have to make huge radiators which simply emit the heat away as infrared radiation?

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by qayxc on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @08:17PM (#25770478)
> On the moon you have no atmosphere to do it with radiators with fans, so I gues you would have to make huge radiators which simply emit the heat away as infrared radiation?

Exactly. You can still transport the heat efficiently away from the computer using heat exchangers with some medium, but in the end radiators with a large enough surface area will be required.

Works well enough on the ISS, so I imagine it'd work just as well on the Moon.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by ubitaco on Thursday January 14, 2021 @07:24AM (#25775537)
I'm also not a physicist, but for the fun of the discussion...

Radiative heat loss scales with the fourth power of temperature. I don't know what temperature the ISS radiators are but suppose they are around 300K. Then I think the radiative surface to keep something cool at 10K would need to be 30^4, or 810000 times larger per unit heat loss. So realistically I think you would need some kind of wacky very low temperature refrigeration to raise the temperature at the radiator, and then maybe radiate the heat into the lunar surface.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by woah on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @06:23PM (#25769436)
Maybe the stone that the moon is made from
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by rini17 on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @04:48PM (#25768385)
Doubt if 80x difference would make it attractive. If it were 8000x then maybe.

And that only if you use the soil for cooling, which is non-renewable resource. If you use radiators, then you can put them on a satellite instead with much lower ping.

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by reasonabl_human on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:44PM (#25767029)
I wouldn’t want to be on call when something breaks on the moon....

Astronaut DRIs?

Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by inglor_cz on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @02:52PM (#25767124)
"Oh no, we bricked a lunar computer! Go grab your pressure suit, Mike! Back in a week, darling... Tell your mother I won't be attending her birthday party."
Re:New superconductor microprocessor yields a substantial bo... by gpderetta on Wednesday January 13, 2021 @09:32PM (#25771094)
Obviously we will use a replaceable army of unknowing clones to service the machines. Cheaper to just defrost a new one than sending someone up.

Who volunteers as the original?