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Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by ErikVandeWater on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @10:29AM (#25748090)
Reddit has conveniently left him out of their about page, despite being a cofounder: https://www.redditinc.com/

About Aaron: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by d3nj4l on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:17AM (#25748893)
And they've explained this multiple times. Aaron was given the title of co-founder, but he joined well after the site had launched, and then proceeded to go AWOL and not work for months until he was fired. Given that he was only very briefly involved in the site, it doesn't make sense to call him a co-founder, even if that was his de jure title.

E: At the same time, I feel like I should state - Aaron Swartz was a martyr, and I don't mean to disparage him or his legacy.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by ErikVandeWater on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:31PM (#25750154)
Ostrich effect at work. He joined a whole 4-5 months later.

> Ohanian launched Reddit in June 2005.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reddit

> When Infogami failed to find further funding, Y-Combinator organizers suggested that Infogami merge with Reddit,[32][33] which it did in November 2005, resulting in the formation of a new firm, Not a Bug, devoted to promoting both products.[32][34] As a result of this merger, Swartz was given the title of co-founder of Reddit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by jancsika on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:46PM (#25750428)
Tell me if I'm understanding this:

A company with the mendacity to misrepresent an employee as a co-founder in order to attract said employee wasn't happy with that employee's performance. So they boldly refuse to continue misrepresenting him as a co-founder on their about page.

If so, I would like to nominate Reddit for the Silicon Valley Courage Award. (However, I think Facebook is the clear front-runner for clamping down on "Stop the Steal" disinformation now that both houses of Congress and the presidency are under Democratic control.)

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by Technically on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:35AM (#25749213)
I don't know why the term is so valuable. Musk went so far as to buy the title for Tesla.
[dead]
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by jagged-chisel on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:44AM (#25749366)
He was under threat of prosecution from the FBI.
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by vmception on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:15PM (#25749919)
US prisons are so full because people do the time.
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by aplummer on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:24PM (#25750061)
They’re full because of the prison industrial complex.
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by krspykrm on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:45PM (#25750412)
Industry has nothing to do with it. Every country has industry. The reason the US has so many in prison is because its people are the more hair-on-fire moralistic crusaders in the civilized world and they want people in prison.
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by aplummer on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:48PM (#25750473)
Industry is not what the prison industrial complex is.

The prison industrial complex is a deliberate lengthening of sentences and increasing of mandatory jail time for non-violent offenses designed to increase the for-profit prison population to increase profit.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by krspykrm on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @04:22PM (#25753907)
"Prison industrial complex" is verbal sleight of hand to blame a system rather than people, but in reality these market forces are merely the revealed preference of what people want. If people wanted these inmates free - and by wanted I mean wanted in the revealed preference sense, not the virtue signal on the internet sense - capitalism would have them free tomorrow.
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by aplummer on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @07:18PM (#25756086)
> If people wanted these inmates free - and by wanted I mean wanted in the revealed preference sense, not the virtue signal on the internet sense - capitalism would have them free tomorrow.

That’s not how the world or capitalism works at all. Plenty of people want things and don’t get them.

If you are referring to “a majority of people” then it’s still not how it works - for example the structure of the existing system affects it (see no president Clinton). There is much more to decisions and change.

In this case, a minority of profit seeking people with power use levers of control on decision makers and propaganda to create public policy.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by vmception on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @02:00PM (#25751667)
and because people didnt commit suicide when the district attorneys and federal agencies came after them, which is my point
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by Shivetya on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:45AM (#25749395)
the pressure the US DOJ attorneys put upon him became unbearable. their high pressure tactics which involve piling on charges and threatening the target with so many years in prison as to be lifetime for some can had adverse affects on people. Sadly this is par for the course as the prosecuting attorney and their office do not get called to account for their methods or out comes.

this is very difficult to correct as many times the target is politically acceptable to many and therefor they just give the DOJ free reign to apply it to anyone they choose.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by rmrfstar on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:57AM (#25749672)
It's important to understand the historical context. Aaron was arrested in 2011, when a lot of other internet politics was happening. Occupy Wall Street, Arab Spring, LulzSec (remember Fuck FBI Friday?), Wikileaks, SOPA. "The block was hot" so to speak.

The attitude in DC was, "those people on the internet think they can do whatever they want, we'll show them." Well, they showed us and we lost a truly inspiring person.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by meragrin_ on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:09AM (#25748746)
According to the Wikipedia page, he did not join Reddit until 6 months after Reddit launched. He was fired a year later. There is also a tweet from 2011 saying he was not a co-founder: https://twitter.com/alexisohanian/status/93374221685755904
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by agumonkey on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @02:25PM (#25752090)
Yeah I've dug a little and it seems Aaron got himself some idolizing 'free net knight' bubble distorting things a bit.

He made a webapp, and partnered with reddit founders to maybe merge things but AFAIK conflicting (technical and non technical) visions made the next step impossible.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by cleansy on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @10:55AM (#25748524)
Reddit’s founders seem to be pretty spineless for doing so. I didn’t even realise that they removed him..
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by NoSorryCannot on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:08AM (#25748724)
Reddit seems pretty unprincipled in general. Their decisions wouldn't be so bad if they appeared to stem from a coherent principle but overall they seem to only be reacting and doing whatever is politically expedient in the moment.

Not unlike most orgs I suppose.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by Bakary on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:22AM (#25748969)
Sounds like a principle to me.

edit: to make this answer less of a throwaway line: it's a principle that underpins most of the MMR-based ideology on this very same website and animates most of the tech scene in general, "making the world a better place" statements notwithstanding. How many of you here can genuinely pretend otherwise in your professional life? A portion perhaps, but clearly the minority.

Beyond the simple cynicism of pointing it out, this principle seems to be quite stable and efficient in the face of an audience that shifts its priorities every two seconds. Perhaps the better question to ask would be why the system of incentives that we have cultivated rewards this behavior. The crowd rewards certain behaviors, and in an increasingly postmodern world moral statements are usually lost in the noise or take the shape of a parody of themselves.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by NoSorryCannot on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @01:32PM (#25751264)
I view a principle as being a belief held that one will hold the line on, even if to do so would be potentially costly. A principle isn't necessarily popular or just.

Optimizing for traffic, revenue, or whatever else is certainly a strategy but I don't think it's a principle in the sense of someone or some people having principles.

And I would add that the effective output of such a strategy, if it were the behavior of an individual, would probably be described as sociopathic.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by a1369209993 on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @02:45PM (#25752387)
> I view a principle as being a belief held that one will hold the line on, even if to do so would be potentially costly. A principle isn't necessarily popular or just.

To be scupulously fair, "never hold the line, especially if it would be costly to do so", is still a principle by that definition, albeit a vacuous one. Just like "zero" is a number of apples you can be holding.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by Bakary on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @02:03PM (#25751712)
I agree with your general stance, but I do wonder if this strategy hasn't morphed into an ideology in itself or at least what we'd recognize as principles (which can indeed cost people by their definition, but not necesarily so) At least that is what I see with much of the content shared here. The world view that percolates across all those articles is one that praises hustle culture, a mechanistic optimization of life, rationality fetishism, "hacking" social relationships, founder/mogul worship and many other ideas that support entrepreneurial success as the fundamental arbiter of value and moral worth. I even saw a few people sincerely believing thar systemic poverty could be alleviated with some bootsrapped startup concept. Essentially a mix of sociopathy and technocracy that can also paradoxically function as a guiding light for non-sociopathic people.
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by meragrin_ on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:06AM (#25748694)
I don't believe the Reddit founders ever considered him a founder. Tweet from 2011: https://twitter.com/alexisohanian/status/93374221685755904
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by baron_harkonnen on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:37AM (#25749264)
Aaron was arrested January 6, 2011. That tweet is from July 2011. Anyone who was active on both HN and Reddit at that time quickly saw the community divided around the issue.

Then Reddit was still trying to figure out how to generate revenue years after a conde nast acquisition and you could tell that the "leadership" team very quickly wanted to distance themselves from any controversy.

Anyone active on Reddit or HN in the early days would have been surprised to here that Aaron was not considered a cofounder. It wasn't until after his legal trouble that the Reddit team tried to distance themselves from him and an his cause as fast as possible.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by cleansy on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:10PM (#25749864)
> For Paul Graham, cofounder of Y Combination who worked with Swartz, Huffman and Ohanian, Aaron Swartz is right to call himself a Reddit founder.

> Speaking on Reddit a few years ago, Graham said: “The company behind Reddit was a merger of two startups…and in that situation the founders of both startups are considered founders of the combined company.” [1]

sounds pretty clear to me..

1: https://www.thefocus.news/tech/aaron-swartz-reddit/

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by ehsankia on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:20PM (#25749997)
This may be unfair as Aaron isn't there to give his side of the story, but the way I understand is that the YC put these 1+2 people (who were all talented) together to help build reddit, but Huffman and Ohanian were far more interested in building reddit as it was originally their project and they had been working on it for 6 months, and it seems like Aaron wasn't as interested in it.

So yes, while Graham did forcingly merge these two together, I don't think it necessarily makes Aaron a co-founder and contributor.

EDIT: Just to add, Aaron's project was "infogami" which seems to be a CMS system, and I'm not sure how much of that actually contributed to reddit. It seems like his project was mostly scratched and the project that Huffman & Ohanian were working on ended up being the real success.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by Zak on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @01:00PM (#25750660)
Early versions of reddit's wiki were more or less reskinned infogami.

As to the co-founder question, Aaron was definitely a co-founder of the merged reddit/infogami company, but he didn't contribute much after that, leading to his departure. I think that, rather than any controversy over his arrest is why Steve and Alexis didn't really consider him a co-founder.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by dpritchett on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @01:12PM (#25750880)
Here’s Swartz detailing how Reddit was rewritten in his own Python framework a scant six months after launch: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/rewritingreddit
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by llcoolv on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:19AM (#25748915)
Well, they should not have given him such a job title then.
Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by gowld on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:41AM (#25749312)
Suppose you get together with someone to found a company as cofounders, but then your cofounder nearly immediately leaves the company to pursue other projects.

Why is it wrong to annul the designation?

Swartz contributed technology (web.py) that Reddit used briefly, and deserves as much credit as other technology contributors of the same scale.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by shubb on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @12:00PM (#25749704)
That doesn't seem to be a fair description - it seems like he originally ran a software house that were paid to build a lot of the original reddit, was acquihired and given the title founder, and then stuck with the company through acquisition before being re-assigned to another of the acquirers properties.

Founder, not sure, but your narrative of someone barely involved doesn't stack up either.

Also, early on, it seems he brought the technical knowhow, acting as an outside CTO, and also had high PR / name recognition value, so I think they owed him some recognition for sure.

Re:Sci-Hub Is Now on the ‘Uncensorable Web’ by adolph on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @01:24PM (#25751122)