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Re:What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design? by teekert on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @05:49AM (#25745059)
Sometimes on fora I encounter pretty hostile attitudes towards bikes/bikers in the US, things like: They claim the road! They are dangerous! They claim the pavement! And I'm looking at the movies and pictures thinking, but where else can they be?

In the Netherlands everybody is a biker at least some of the time and a driver at other times. A hostile attitude towards a biker is just simply very weird to see and read about. It's like people being hostile to someone for breathing your air or something.

Re:What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design? by rocgf on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @06:16AM (#25745332)
This attitude towards cyclists is somewhat universal outside a few cycling-friendly countries, it is not US specific by any means.

Cyclists are always seen as a nuisance, since they block the road for the "real" traffic. Cycling lanes are also somewhat rare outside the Netherlands and Denmark, so bikes and cars almost always share the road.

I have a particular pet peeve, which is the term "cycling city". I see it everywhere because it is sexy to proclaim that bikes are on your priority list as mayor/government. As an example, in Manchester (UK) the mayor has proclaimed that Manchester will be a cycling city, yet bike lanes are rarely included in new projects. There was a redevelopment for one of the larger streets in Manchester, obviously without _any_ consideration for bikes.

If you want cycling cities, there are a few scattered around Europe, but nothing compared to the Netherlands and Denmark. The rest is just bs.

Re:What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design? by ljf on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @06:04AM (#25745216)
I once read something similar about France. Most young people will start by cycling to see friends and get about, change to a moped when they have the money, and then one day maybe have a car. So when you see a cyclist they are very much 'you' and not 'other' - there is also great support of the French cycling team and local teams, so there is a feeling of pride when you see cyclist out.

I can only speak for the UK, people certainly see you (on a bike) as something that is impeding their journey, rather than a fellow human getting to work/out to enjoy the location.

I've been told so many times that I don't pay for the roads (I do) and that I'm slowing them down - in London while you might overtake a cyclist they will certainly catch you up at the next light.

Re:What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design? by stasiu on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @05:59AM (#25745174)
A great insight in this from a Canadian in Amsterdam: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMed1qceJ_Q
Re:What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design? by teekert on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @06:18AM (#25745350)
Wow, great insight indeed! I do feel really afraid to ever ride my bike with my Dutch attitude outside the Netherlands now, especially without a helmet as everybody normally does here... Wow, "punishment passes", how inhuman!

Edit: I looked into it a bit more, apparently videos of our prime-minster on his bike went viral! [0], how funny for such a normal thing. The dutch comments are pretty telling indeed:

- "Up next: Karel (56) bumped his toe"

- "Wow, he's almost like a real human, right?"

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u6lD2JzWY8

Re:What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design? by throwaway2245 on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @10:16AM (#25747926)
> apparently videos of our prime-minster on his bike went viral!, how funny for such a normal thing.

This is a very intentional and knowing part of Mark Rutte's brand. You often see him being filmed jumping on his bicycle - I mean, here, in the Dutch news. He is doing that deliberately to invoke national pride.

Compare image searches: "Mark Rutte fiets" (the prime-minister, apparently thousands of results), "Hugo de Jonge fiets" (the most media-friendly deputy prime-minister, no relevant results)

Also, there are frequent news stories within the Netherlands that are just "look, the Royal Family cycles".

It's something the Dutch are very proud of. Strange to claim otherwise.

Re:What can Seattle learn from Dutch street design? by teekert on Tuesday January 12, 2021 @11:11AM (#25748774)
Yeah I can imagine it's part of Rutte's brand indeed. And, true, I do feel some pride. Well, I guess it's nice that in incites pride and not a "Damn Cyclists" reaction. It is indeed part of our national identity.