News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by mjburgess on Monday January 11, 2021 @06:27AM (#25727526)
There's also the culture around the language to fold in.

A culture of writing code assuming inference and structural typing is quite different than it merely being available.

Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by FpUser on Monday January 11, 2021 @07:44AM (#25728154)
I have zero problems using type inference, tuples, etc in my code. Other developers I deal with and who do use C++ have no problems using those "novel" concepts either. So I am completely at loss about what type of culture you are talking about here. It looks like grasping at a straw type of argument to me.
Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by mjburgess on Monday January 11, 2021 @08:32AM (#25728622)
I'm talking about all libraries and books written since it's development up until the early 10s; and of all those teams, libraries, and code which are legacy.

Haskell has never had a decades-long history of 'compiler-oriented programming', ie., excessive declarations, and so on.

The idea that C++ has a haskellish culture is patently absurd, even if the vanguard regard itself as presenting tending toward that direction.

Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by FpUser on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:12PM (#25731987)
I am in no way implying that "C++ has a haskellish culture". Neither I would consider it of any advantage. All I said is that modern C++ programmers have no problems using the concepts. There is plenty of those that are used in gobbles of libraries as well. Sure old libraries do not have it but so what?
Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by sfg on Monday January 11, 2021 @07:34AM (#25728058)
So, OCaml or something?

Or has Haskell added structural typing?

Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by mjburgess on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:07AM (#25728983)
Haskell is structurally typed...
Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by tome on Monday January 11, 2021 @09:13AM (#25729044)
Hmm, what do you mean? Haskell is generally considered nominally typed (or rather types introduced by its newtype and data declarations are ...). "Structural typing" typically refers to things like polymorphic row types and polymorphic variants.
Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by mjburgess on Monday January 11, 2021 @10:53AM (#25730557)
Sure, my mistake. I meant something looser.

Only that the types can be analysed structurally (ie., pattern matched).

In C++, etc. there's a "radical nominalism" in which the type was very opaque, ie., encapsualated.

Re: Haskell is our first choice for building production soft... by gpderetta on Monday January 11, 2021 @12:53PM (#25732792)
It is complicated. Templates do allow some form of structural typing and the new-in-C++17 structured bindings do allow for decomposing and inspecting types (although this being C++ it is kind of awkward). Structured bindings are expected to evolve into full pattern matching in the future.