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Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by dragonwriter on Saturday January 09, 2021 @04:01PM (#25704690)
> it unequivocally identifies Asimov as a Communist and apologist for Stalin

It critiques 1984 for it's narrow focus on the Stalinist form of totalitarianism, but I see no actual apologia for Stalinism. (The closest is the acknowledgement of the role the USSR under Stalin played as an ally against the Nazis.)

It does argue that 1984 misses the internal instability of totalitarianisms like Stalinism, which besame evident after 1984 was written.

> His critique of the science fiction, that screens which watch you back is a poor prediction (because how on Earth could Google watch people at scale?!) is particularly hilarious, if a bit sad.

The critique isn't of screens that watch you back, but of the failure of imagination of Orwell envisioning only screens by which a human watches you in real time rather than one that does so by some automated, scalable means.

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by inglor_cz on Saturday January 09, 2021 @04:50PM (#25705188)
"It does argue that 1984 misses the internal instability of totalitarianisms like Stalinism, which besame evident after 1984 was written."

Instability compared to what? Stalin's USSR survived major natural disasters and wars, expanded its territory and the leader died in office. Multiple democracies in contemporary Europe were destroyed from the same influences. Only UK, Sweden and Switzerland could be said to be at least as stable as Stalinist USSR.

I despise and hate Stalin, but his regime was fairly stable compared to contemporaries.

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by dragonwriter on Saturday January 09, 2021 @05:09PM (#25705399)
> Instability compared to what?

Instability compared to what Asimov sees as Orwell's perspective that Stalinism is impervious to internal erosion (including death of the leader.)

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by watwut on Saturday January 09, 2021 @06:11PM (#25706066)
Communism survived Stalin death untouch. In fact, it became more stable as Stalin was driver of instability at the top.
Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by narag on Saturday January 09, 2021 @07:26PM (#25706757)
Also most of the people that could rebel had been killed already. Moreover, although the soviets fell, China is pretty much alive and kicking disidents forty years later.
Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by dragonwriter on Saturday January 09, 2021 @10:35PM (#25709308)
> Communism survived Stalin death untouch

Soviet Communism survived, it did not survive unchanged.

> it became more stable as Stalin was driver of instability at the top.

Asimov would, based on the fairly explicit statements in the review on the topic, say that it got more stable precisely because it became less totalitarian.

I’m not interested in arguing whether Asimov is right on this point, but it is indefensible to claim that his painting of Stalinism as tyranny that was explicitly repudiated as such by later Soviet Communism is an apologia for Stalinism.

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by watwut on Sunday January 10, 2021 @04:21AM (#25712728)
It did not became less totalitarian as much as less violent. The control over population remained strong, they did not gained new rights.
Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by 082349872349872 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @02:26AM (#25711905)
not exactly untouched: after JFK was cancelled, Khruschev was in turn cancelled by his hardliners, and according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikita_Khrushchev#Removal said:

"Let them cope by themselves. I've done the main thing. Could anyone have dreamed of telling Stalin that he didn't suit us anymore and suggesting he retire? Not even a wet spot would have remained where we had been standing. Now everything is different. The fear is gone, and we can talk as equals. That's my contribution. I won't put up a fight."

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by watwut on Sunday January 10, 2021 @04:16AM (#25712697)
None of them was cancelled, they were not protested against by students. They did not had twitter yet. It is stupid term to use in relation to 1954 Russia.

That is not what instability of regime means. It does not refer to individual being forced to retire. The regime itself was more stable then before. Khruschev retirement did not weakened nor endangered regime.

Stalin did changed people on top too. Some changes and power struggles after his death are not more instability or "touched" communism.

Khruschev was the first one retired. Powerful people before him left power dead (by execution) or by being imprisoned forever. That is being more stable.

It did became safer to both hold power and not to hold it in Russia after Stalin death.

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by watwut on Saturday January 09, 2021 @06:09PM (#25706054)
The book however does no such thing. You gotta know before hand the Stalinist thing, the book itself does not actually describe how Stalin worked. Both Asimov and Orwell guessed in that matter, even if we assume Asimov have point.

Also, actual Stalin system was remarkably stable.

Finally, the system was that most of the time they don't watch. Only sometimes. Which would describe tech of 2021 quite accurately. It is 40 years later and pretty much that is what we got.

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by kevin_thibedeau on Saturday January 09, 2021 @04:54PM (#25705235)
You can see 1984's themes in play today in democratic governance: Say one thing and do another. Label groups as "the enemy" to have a target for hatred. Denigrate critical thinking and much more. It covers more than just Stalinist totalitarianism.
Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by dragonwriter on Saturday January 09, 2021 @05:05PM (#25705337)
> You can see 1984's themes in play today in democratic governance

Sure, but that's not really germane to the review, which isn't that 1984 doesn't highlight some things that are real concerns that might affect even non-Stalinist governments (as Stalinism itself includes some elements that can be found outside of it, as well), but that 1984 is basically an unimaginative, literal overlay of Stalinism on top of contemporary (at the time of writing) English society through the biases of the authors social class where the technical elements were relatively unimaginative and poorly thought through in their pragmatics.

Re:The lesser-known Orwell: are his novels deserving of reap... by 082349872349872 on Sunday January 10, 2021 @02:28AM (#25711915)
Like Animal Farm, 1984 probably says as much or more about english attitudes than about Stalin. (but selling them as about Stalinism was almost certainly a key social hack to weaseling them into the anglophone curriculum)