Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by rmoriz on Friday May 20, 2011 @11:47AM
(#2568132)
News:
Websites of the German Police (http://polizei.de) and Federal Criminal Police Office (http://bka.de) are currently unreachable. rumors: Anonymous disabled the sites
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by stygianguest on Friday May 20, 2011 @12:05PM
(#2568218)
I wonder why it is so easy to take down these sites, as I am under the impression that Anonymous consists mostly of script kiddies. Are these attacks DDoS? That shouldn't be too hard to arrange if you're with enough people + perhaps some unemployed botnets.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by tomjen3 on Friday May 20, 2011 @02:35PM
(#2568904)
It wouldn't be difficult for anyone here to make the sites much more difficult to protect but these are government sites which means they likely have incapable people working who are tied down by sixteen layers of bureaucracy.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by sorbus on Friday May 20, 2011 @12:41PM
(#2568379)
Yeah, they're all DDoSes. Look into the Low Orbit Ion Cannon; it used to be (and may still be) the tool that they used.
The hacks that are attributed to Anonymous seem to be mostly be the work of a small core of actual hackers who either use Anonymous as cover or support its ideology.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by rmoriz on Friday May 20, 2011 @01:04PM
(#2568472)
News: German news magazine Spiegel Online says (Headline), the raid was caused because some users used the hosted etherpad ("piratenpad") of the Pirat Party to plan attacks on french power provider EdF (Électricité de France).
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by martin_k on Friday May 20, 2011 @11:22AM
(#2568005)
Well, taking down Paypal and Visa after they stopped processing Wikileaks donations didn't "help much" either. But it is some form of protest after all.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by joelthelion on Friday May 20, 2011 @11:32AM
(#2568057)
Note that they did not give WikiLeaks their money back nor lose a lot of money.
I agree it's a form of protest, but not a very good one, because it paints WikiLeaks / Pirate Party supporters in a bad light, and having public opinion on our side is more important than taking down a few servers for a few hours.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by martin_k on Friday May 20, 2011 @02:06PM
(#2568812)
I agree that this could be bad PR for the Pirate Party. But then Anonymous is not the Pirate Party and their goals don't necessarily line up. The way I see it, Anonymous' actions are usually less demonstrations for a particular cause, but more against certain violations of civil rights. In the Wikileaks case e.g. I assume that not everyone who participated in the DDoS against Visa, necessarily agrees with the way Assange leads the organization or cares much about Wikileaks success. And that's probably similar with the current case. You're sailing in the same ocean, but you're not all in the same ship.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by piratenblog on Friday May 20, 2011 @07:28PM
(#2569786)
the page listed here is mine, and i am quite surprised how many people were looking at it. if you have any questions, just make a comment here or on my blog and i will try to answer it.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by jk4930 on Friday May 20, 2011 @12:24PM
(#2568299)
German Pirate Party == leftist pot heads (mostly coming from the green and socialist parties) with some affinity to computers. Most of them are obese. And usually don't shower. And don't know how to dress. It's pathetic. :)
Now they try to extend their political agenda with typical leftist stuff: basic income for all, anti-business, open borders for all a.s.o. and the few women try to push some vegan ideology.
The funny thing is that their agenda was 100% predictable from their physical appearance.
The good thing is that they're almost history. They had their time of hype and media attention and now they cripple around and nobody cares.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by jk4930 on Friday May 20, 2011 @01:07PM
(#2568480)
Where's the problem? This is something I do tell people into their faces (because it's true) and it's not the start of a flamewar but my educated observation (being in politics for more than 16 years).
All my points mentioned are relevant to see where these fellas are coming from and why they won't succeed. And these are only the obvious points. It gets worse with the fact that most of them are politically naive. They are morons because (political) hackers would consume the existing literature on the social domain first before making stupid proposals that won't work. (Most of their proposals won't work either because they get the incentives wrong or they don't scale.)
Not everything you don't like reading is against the guidelines.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by sorbus on Friday May 20, 2011 @01:31PM
(#2568635)
> All my points mentioned are relevant to see where these fellas are coming from and why they won't succeed.
From your original comment:
> Most of them are obese. And usually don't shower. And don't know how to dress. It's pathetic.
> The funny thing is that their agenda was 100% predictable from their physical appearance.
Obesity, lack of showering, and bad fashion sense are entirely irrelevant, unless presented as reason that popular opinion will not support them. You also might want to provide citations for those three facts, as it comes off as you being abusive. Being able to predict their agenda from their physical appearance is entirely irrelevant.
> Not everything you don't like reading is against the guidelines.
Applicable guidelines:
> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names.
You are primarily insulting them, rather than presenting a well thought out criticism of them and their political views. You have exactly one sentence which comes close to doing so.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by jk4930 on Friday May 20, 2011 @03:02PM
(#2568993)
> unless presented as reason that popular opinion will not support them.
That was implicitly part of my message, yes. They're certainly not hacking the social perception...
> Being able to predict their agenda from their physical appearance is entirely irrelevant.
People are visually blocked before they could get to their message. If they want support from more than the usual suspects, then they have to play according to the rules of the social game.
If I won't change my "insulting" style, I get downvoted at HN. If they won't change, they won't get upvoted in elections.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by tlb on Friday May 20, 2011 @05:29PM
(#2569490)
I found your comment useful -- I previously had no idea what sort of party the Pirate party was, and you provided a vivid picture of what kind of fringe they are on. The story would have a different color if they were as mainstream as the Green or Libertarian parties in the US.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by jodrellblank on Friday May 20, 2011 @01:19PM
(#2568570)
Where's the problem?
That "they don't shower and I don't like how they dress so I predicted they are anti-business and they are now crippled and failing hooray, morons" is a terrible argument filled with personal attacks and cliched "geeks don't shower" internet arguments - and they are against the posting guidelines.
Also that your comment is content-free. First paragraph: nothing but insults. Second paragraph - an alledged list of their policies presented in a negative way. Third paragraph - empty celebration.
The guidelines say "don't say anything you wouldn't say face to face", but that shouldn't mean "if you are rude in real life, feel free to be rude here".
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by jk4930 on Friday May 20, 2011 @01:43PM
(#2568710)
Well, my observations aren't cliches but come from actual contact with these people. And they aren't geeks, certainly not (that some of them actually wrote some perl programs doesn't make them geeks). My "insults" are factual observations and provide some additional information to form a better picture of the German pirates. And I didn't say they're anti-business because I don't like their dresses but that their appearance is typical for their political agenda and I'm not surprised.
That they dress so badly is--especially in the political domain--an important point. That they (okay, some of them, but the few stink for the whole group) don't shower is also negative when they approach people on the streets for handing out information and recruit supporters. They look and behave like an internet joke in RL. When they greet new people with "Aaaaargh!" this is certainly the way to success...
I'm not rude. I'm just telling the facts. The political domain is unforgiving and they should be thankful for my feedback.
Re:Police confiscate German Pirate Party’s servers
by VMG on Friday May 20, 2011 @06:11PM
(#2569606)
While I share your viewpoint, your wording is rude and insulting. Also the comment is not exactly on topic, so it is perceived as a typical internet rant from somebody who doesn't read the article.
Websites of the German Police (http://polizei.de) and Federal Criminal Police Office (http://bka.de) are currently unreachable. rumors: Anonymous disabled the sites
The hacks that are attributed to Anonymous seem to be mostly be the work of a small core of actual hackers who either use Anonymous as cover or support its ideology.
Source (German): http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/0,1518,763939,00....
I agree it's a form of protest, but not a very good one, because it paints WikiLeaks / Pirate Party supporters in a bad light, and having public opinion on our side is more important than taking down a few servers for a few hours.
the text on the page is NOT mine, it was written by the party. i am a member of the party since early 2007 and we had similar problems in 2008 (the spokesperson mentioned was me) http://torrentfreak.com/pirate-party-official-raided-after-u...
http://twitter.com/#!/Piratenpartei/statuses/717265175871569...
reason may be the public hosted etherpad ("piratenpad") and a direction by the french public prosecutor's office
Now they try to extend their political agenda with typical leftist stuff: basic income for all, anti-business, open borders for all a.s.o. and the few women try to push some vegan ideology. The funny thing is that their agenda was 100% predictable from their physical appearance.
The good thing is that they're almost history. They had their time of hype and media attention and now they cripple around and nobody cares.
All my points mentioned are relevant to see where these fellas are coming from and why they won't succeed. And these are only the obvious points. It gets worse with the fact that most of them are politically naive. They are morons because (political) hackers would consume the existing literature on the social domain first before making stupid proposals that won't work. (Most of their proposals won't work either because they get the incentives wrong or they don't scale.)
Not everything you don't like reading is against the guidelines.
From your original comment:
> Most of them are obese. And usually don't shower. And don't know how to dress. It's pathetic.
> The funny thing is that their agenda was 100% predictable from their physical appearance.
Obesity, lack of showering, and bad fashion sense are entirely irrelevant, unless presented as reason that popular opinion will not support them. You also might want to provide citations for those three facts, as it comes off as you being abusive. Being able to predict their agenda from their physical appearance is entirely irrelevant.
> Not everything you don't like reading is against the guidelines.
Applicable guidelines:
> When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names.
You are primarily insulting them, rather than presenting a well thought out criticism of them and their political views. You have exactly one sentence which comes close to doing so.
> Be civil.
That was implicitly part of my message, yes. They're certainly not hacking the social perception...
> Being able to predict their agenda from their physical appearance is entirely irrelevant.
People are visually blocked before they could get to their message. If they want support from more than the usual suspects, then they have to play according to the rules of the social game.
If I won't change my "insulting" style, I get downvoted at HN. If they won't change, they won't get upvoted in elections.
That "they don't shower and I don't like how they dress so I predicted they are anti-business and they are now crippled and failing hooray, morons" is a terrible argument filled with personal attacks and cliched "geeks don't shower" internet arguments - and they are against the posting guidelines.
Also that your comment is content-free. First paragraph: nothing but insults. Second paragraph - an alledged list of their policies presented in a negative way. Third paragraph - empty celebration.
The guidelines say "don't say anything you wouldn't say face to face", but that shouldn't mean "if you are rude in real life, feel free to be rude here".
That they dress so badly is--especially in the political domain--an important point. That they (okay, some of them, but the few stink for the whole group) don't shower is also negative when they approach people on the streets for handing out information and recruit supporters. They look and behave like an internet joke in RL. When they greet new people with "Aaaaargh!" this is certainly the way to success...
I'm not rude. I'm just telling the facts. The political domain is unforgiving and they should be thankful for my feedback.
Nothing wrong with smoking pot though.