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Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by olyjohn on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:01PM (#25674695)
Is this really what people want in the news? A biased political stance?
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by DubiousPusher on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:37PM (#25676121)
All news is biased. Left, Right, Center is a false trichotomy. There is no such thing as objective journalism because the news is a filter. Even if one reports "just the facts", the facts one decides to report impart a bias.

I might report that "a woman is suing McDonalds for spilling hot coffee on herself". That is an unbiased fact. And it implants a story of runaway litigiousness. If I also report that "McDonalds was warned many times about the temperature of its coffee and even sure once already and the woman sustained 3rd degree burns" the story becomes one of corporate malfeasance.

Compound this further. I now state that the woman won millions of dollars, you may be tilting back toward over litigiousness. But if I report that she only sought damages and the jury awarded her punitive damages of its own accord the we're back to corporate malfeasance.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by matwood on Thursday January 07, 2021 @03:04PM (#25676561)
IMO, the largest bias, which you left out, is what story is told at all.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by DubiousPusher on Thursday January 07, 2021 @03:15PM (#25676728)
Absolutely. I can think of no better example than the recent moral panic over free speech. Because a few college kids on the wokest campuses in the country booted a few right-wingers we spent months covering every campus invitation as if it was the ratification of the first amendment itself. (I'm not saying there are no first amendment issues in America but who decided the events of a few college campuses were the evidentiary standard for a new social phenomena).
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by edmundsauto on Thursday January 07, 2021 @08:28PM (#25680240)
What, then, is your stance - do you think there is a difference of degree or agenda that matters? Or are they all the same, and should all be thrown out together.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by DubiousPusher on Friday January 08, 2021 @02:08AM (#25682344)
In terms of trying to sift and acquire information it probably doesn't make much of a difference. It helps to know each outlet's priors so you can distill the useful information. The Drudge Report is obviously biased but for years it was the best place to get the straight dope on natsec because they had 4th amendment sensibilities. Lately I've actually become pretty avid Fox reader because they're bullshit is so blatant it's very easy to discard it and take the value. This approach does have its limits. At a certain point you do hit Infowars levels of nonsense and all useful information is scrambled.

Even if you want to focus on an ethical argument I'm not sure how to create a standard to compare them. Who is worse, Fox News who wears their bias on their sleeve or the New York Times who constantly hold themselves out as remarkable while piping all kinds of military and intelligence propaganda through to their readers. Who is worse? The organization that just outright supported Bush or the one that claimed to be a check and then held the illegal NSA spying story through an election?

IMO it's best not to choose which is better or worse. It's better to know how to read through both.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by edmundsauto on Friday January 08, 2021 @01:47PM (#25688290)
Don’t you have to know the relative strengths of each so you can weight the information as you read it? That sounds like implicitly choosing which is better or worse.

Another interesting point you brought up: how long a go should we look? Is today’s NYT still culpable for mistakes made nearly 20 years ago? (Not defending them, as I’m sure there are more recent examples. But when has enough time passed?)

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by CodeWriter23 on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:08PM (#25674804)
> Is this really what people want in the news? A biased political stance?

When we have a great number of people who say things like “but that’s from xyz source so it’s bunk”, without examining the underlying facts or lack of facts, I’d have to say the answer to your question is Yes.

PS I’m willing to examine news from any source and employ discernment.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by nomel on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:51PM (#25676334)
Assuming actual investigative journalism here...

Someone once told me that you need bias in the news to create an adversarial system. Those that are biased towards some other viewpoint will be the only ones that dig deep to expose the problems of that other viewpoint. If everyone was neutral, there would be more motivation to present what happened rather than call foul.

I'm not sure I completely agree with this, but it did nudge my perspective.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by lawnchair_larry on Thursday January 07, 2021 @08:13PM (#25680106)
I’d agree that has its place. But there is an important difference between honest bias and dishonest bias.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by bra-ket on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:02PM (#25674709)
when all mainstream news are heavily biased in favor of one political party and spread blatant misinformation, you need an alternative as a counterbalance and source of truth.

the fact people don't even notice, or choose to ignore the bias in mainstream media is beyond me.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by hobs on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:05PM (#25674754)
Fox News is already amazingly biased and censured world wide - claiming you need even worse liars to help you feel better about "balance" makes no sense.
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Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by tomrod on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:30PM (#25675124)
This is incorrect. Fox continues to maintain a conservative view. DailyWire and similar are radical right, which maps fairly cleanly to Nationalism, Fascism, and similar.

That's if you are using the commonly received connotation of conservative, rather than trying to rewrite reality.

My $0.02.

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Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by klyrs on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:32PM (#25676048)
What a weird thing to say, only a day after nationalists stormed the nation's capitol with the intent to disrupt the democratic process in favor of an autocratic dictator.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by throwawehh on Thursday January 07, 2021 @03:28PM (#25676951)
> only a day after nationalists stormed the nation's capitol with the intent to disrupt the democratic process in favor of an autocratic dictator.

I'm more curious to ask "why" people no longer trust the Government?

The real failure is that we've locked down society, destroyed the economy, and hastily thrown together an election so rife with problems that it's led to an environment where millions of people do not trust the outcome. The same leaders implementing the lockdowns are meanwhile dictating orders from tropical resorts or caught breaking their own rules in blatant shows of hypocrisy.

The States have not done an adequate job quelling election fraud suspicions and as a result the President and his supporters no longer believe the result. Can you blame them? Is blaming them productive? It fails to address the problem and it won't go away. Calling them white supremascists, nationalists, fasicsts, racists, and the other explicatives that have been used for the past four years is only going to further divide this nation and have the opposite intended outcome.

Did the media single out and target the people supporting, promoting, and engaging in the 3+ months of left-wing riots this past summer? Most of the media pundits now calling this latest event an insurrection, were previously condoning and explaining away "mostly peaceful" protests as multiple cities burned, as violent agitators stormed the Federal Courthouse in Portland for over 100 days, threw bombs, lit fires, burned cars, killed people (chop/chaz/portland), and more. And let's not pretend that had Trump won the election, Antifa and other left-wing groups wouldn't be over a month in of the same thing.

The level of hypocrisy and disconnect is so startling it's scary. What I see is a total lack of understanding across the spectrum, a total failure to acknowledge both sides and apply standards consistently and unequivocally, a total failure of communication and decency. I'm not sure how the country moves in a positive direction.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by tomrod on Thursday January 07, 2021 @09:20PM (#25680673)
Or, they were encouraged to believe so by propaganda. And that led to the deaths of several people due to their insurrection, as most people not divorced from reality could have predicted several years before.

Just saying, there was little surprising yesterday to anyone who has taken time to talk to these conspiracy theorists and seen the level of fear they choose to live in and surround themselves with, though it is deeply sad.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by tomrod on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:40PM (#25675262)
Or, it's a coherent philosophy of corporate ownership of the economy directed by government dictate, as it has been known since long before your identified method of deflection.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by paradox242 on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:55PM (#25676410)
> corporate ownership of the economy directed by government dictate

Your "explanation" contains a contradiction, so you're not off to a great start here. If the economy or corporations are directed by government dictate, they don't really own anything in a meaningful sense. In this arrangement they are more like managers than owners. If you disagree, ask yourself if any corporation really has another option other to comply if one of their decisions is countermanded by the state.

There is a reason it is named after the Fasces, a symbol of authority borne by a Lictor through the streets of Rome ahead of Tribunes and other officials with authority (okay, granted that this term and symbolism is decidedly Italian, fascism will always feature symbols distinct to each nation). The essence of fascism is power. A fascist believes this power comes from unity (another reason the Fasces is a chosen symbol, as it contains a bundle of sticks that when bound together cannot be easily broken) and so the subordination of the individual and every institution to state power is the cornerstone of their policy.

You seem to misrepresent the primacy of economics in fascist ideology, perhaps confusing this with Syndicalism, which Mussolini was involved with early in his political career. Fascism is something else. While it incorporates the subordination of the economy to the state, above this it values ethics of action, a willingness to commit violence against its enemies, courage, and obedience to authority. It is inherently anti-democratic, authoritarian and totalitarian. It will not tolerate internal rivals or dissent. It always features a leader who rules as dictator and to my knowledge has never succeeded in a stable transfer of power once that leader dies.

It has often been linked to the Romantic period as so much of fascist ideology is based on emotion, feeling, symbolic mysticism, and the irrational. It's politics can be seen as a reaction to the ultra-rational basis from which Communism claims to descend.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by tomrod on Thursday January 07, 2021 @09:04PM (#25680536)
I love the deep dive into the etymology and symbolism!

Being an economist, I wrote what felt natural and accept your kind and pointed correction.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by bra-ket on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:13PM (#25675771)
woah, that's a mouthful. My grandpa fought fascists and I never heard any of these fancy words from him.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by tomrod on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:21PM (#25675894)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority#Fals...

Your lack of understanding or stubbornness aside, if your grandfather fought actual fascists it is doubtful he defined the term.

All that is immaterial, of course, to your current incorrect claim that Fox News somehow became liberal recently, which I can only assume is established in your view by the idea that Trump presently dislikes them.

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by AnimalMuppet on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:15PM (#25674926)
You posted the same thing (almost word for word) five posts upthread. Just repeating yourself is not a convincing argument. It might be a decent propaganda technique, but it's a lousy argument.
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Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by AnimalMuppet on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:30PM (#25675125)
That's OK. I get a new "flag" button on every post you make...

(Also, those of us who have "showdead" turned on can see your posts, even after they're flagged. That's how I knew you were repeating yourself.)

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by bra-ket on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:33PM (#25675174)
never noticed that option, it's not a default though, thanks for the tip.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by AnimalMuppet on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:42PM (#25675287)
OK, to those who downvoted the parent: I understand the temptation to downvote everything someone says when you disagree strongly with them on some point, but there is nothing in the parent post that deserves your downvotes. Downvote the post; not the person.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by shrimp_emoji on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:09PM (#25674813)
It's attractive to ignore it because "reality has a well-known liberal bias". Politics are not created equal. Conservatives are observably less educated than liberals: look at the demographics.

That said, any bias (including corporate influence) is worse than an agnostic information reporting machine (which C-SPAN or the BBC approach best).

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by cltby on Thursday January 07, 2021 @01:51PM (#25675416)
Education is indeed becoming the dividing line between left and right all over the world. Sadly, it is because the scope of "education" has been expanded to include subjects with no intellectual content.
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by gurkendoktor on Thursday January 07, 2021 @03:53PM (#25677306)
Mhm, there have always been soft sciences (sorry MBAs).

I agree that education is becoming a major dividing line, but in my opinion that's because the "left" is moving towards elitism, whereas the "right" is slowly embracing populism. "Only dummies vote for the others" is just a snobby way of saying "we lost the working class".

Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by namlem on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:44PM (#25676224)
Such as?
Re:Facebook Indefinitely Suspends Trump by bra-ket on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:51PM (#25676340)
safe spaces, gender studies, wokeness certificates, virtue signaling workshops, degrees in conformity & groupthink.

read William Dereshevitz' "Excellent Sheep", it's the best book on the subject.