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Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by jasode on Thursday January 07, 2021 @09:26AM (#25671346)
>realizing that I too was programming for the Internet in 1996, and I could have asked the same type of question, in the same year, etc.

Let me offer another way of framing it so it doesn't seem like comparing your programming-trajectory to Larry Page's programming-trajectory.

The way to look at people like Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, Elon Musk is to see them as businessmen who happen to know how to do some programming.

I'm not trivializing Larry as a "script kiddie" because he did know advanced programming concepts since he pursued comp sci PhD at Stanford but the programming itself wasn't his main interest. Yes, Larry asked a Java question but the real interest was solving an intellectual puzzle: since the impact (e.g. h-index[1]) of academic papers can be approximated by citations, can that same idea be applied to webpages by analyzing the pages' href links??? This is the idea that's bigger than Java which preoccupied his mind.

After he codes his proof-of-concept crawler in Java, one of his later employees at Google Inc rewrites it in C++ for performance. Larry Page doesn't waste time arguing on internet forums that "C++ gives you so many ways to shoot yourself in the foot". Instead, he concentrates on the expanding his idea to organize all the world's information.

That's what a lot of us on HN are trying to do... find a big idea that just lets us use our programming skills to implement it. The programming is only a transition state to something else. Personally, I do like programming but that's not my end goal of self-actualization.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-index

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by rwmj on Thursday January 07, 2021 @09:55AM (#25671722)
Also better to look at them as people who were enormously lucky, by being in the right place at the right time with the right idea.

For example I worked at a company which built a social network, starting out in schools, generously funded by VC money. Unfortunately that was back in 1999 before a bunch of stuff had come together to turn that into a multi-billion dollar idea (such as widely available always-on flat-fee internet, and cheap digital cameras).

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by anonymouse008 on Thursday January 07, 2021 @09:59AM (#25671774)
Which company was that? Genuinely curious to learn from the graveyard
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by rwmj on Thursday January 07, 2021 @10:03AM (#25671825)
The URL itself is some kind of spam link site, but here's the site from back in the day:

https://web.archive.org/web/20000303100223/schoolmaster.net/

It's a bit hard to get an idea what the site was about now because everything was behind a login (hey, like Facebook!) so the Internet Archive didn't scrape very much.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by hyperpallium2 on Thursday January 07, 2021 @10:03AM (#25671819)
Also, he understood linear algebra's eigenvalues and eigenvectors well enough to apply them to that problem for pagerank. So it's then second year math/engineering students who should be comparing themselves...

[ Counterpoint: some argue that pagerank wasn't as important as google's ad-free front-page (not a "portal"), and superfast results (thanks to Sergey) - but even if so, "The Algorithm" impressed Stanford, Sun co-founder investor, talented employees and early nerd users. ]

BTW as for programming, it seems Scott Hassan "wrote much of the code for the original Google Search engine." https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Google

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by cmrdporcupine on Thursday January 07, 2021 @10:21AM (#25672036)
I used Google in 1997 and set it as my home page, etc. and it was almost certainly the fast response and ad-free page that got me, more than the results. The results were good, but not uncanny or mind blowing. Also had a great vibe of "geekiness," kind of still old-school Internet in a time when the web was going in another direction very quickly.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by _jal on Thursday January 07, 2021 @11:56AM (#25673536)
> kind of still old-school Internet in a time when the web was going in another direction very quickly

Oh, they had great marketing. Some of it was even true.

Too bad they became that other direction.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by gowld on Friday January 08, 2021 @01:39PM (#25688125)
It's not "bigger than Java". Java's a pretty big deal. It's (a) pursuing opportunities (obviously after having opportunities arise) not interests, (b) clawing for power and not being content as a team power, and (c) maximizing ROI and getting other people to do the less glamorous statusful work while getting outsize share of credit for it, and of course being the luckiest of the 100 other brilliant people who tried something similar.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by chasd00 on Thursday January 07, 2021 @11:19AM (#25672876)
what a great comment, thank you. I'll add that the devil is in the details. a great idea and a great POC can be squashed by bad hiring. and good hiring can be squashed by bad culture. there are many slices in the pie chart of building a company and you have to hit every one out of the park for success.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @10:22AM (#25672041)
> Bill Gates, Jeff Bezos, Larry Page, Elon Musk

Arguably Steve Jobs is more deserving to be in this list than Musk who's never run a profitable company.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by OJFord on Thursday January 07, 2021 @10:24AM (#25672072)
My yawning aside, Tesla turned a profit last year; hence its inclusion in the S&P500. It wasn't waiting to be big, it was waiting to profit, at which point it joined at #6.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @10:26AM (#25672092)
Enron was also highly ranked. Apple is a bigger success story, profitable from day one.

Musk promises self driving year after year, and now even Waymo is moving away from that term in order to distinguish themselves from misnamed driver-assist technology like Tesla's [1].

[1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/6/22216848/waymo-change-self...

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by OJFord on Thursday January 07, 2021 @11:08AM (#25672634)
Sure. But it's just some commenter's list of successful people, not Forbes' Top 5 Businessmen Ever or something.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @07:39PM (#25679739)
No sweat. We're all in the same boat here
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by kevin_thibedeau on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:24PM (#25675935)
> Apple is a bigger success story, profitable from day one.

Except they'd be gone without the Microsoft investment. Profitable companies don't end up on the verge of failure.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @07:38PM (#25679728)
That just makes Jobs all the more impressive since he was the one who patched things up with Microsoft. Both Gates and Jobs are on record saying to each other that the other's company made their own company better.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by inglor_cz on Thursday January 07, 2021 @10:56AM (#25672441)
"Musk who's never run a profitable company."

Isn't the profit of a private corp. like SpaceX an unknown variable? They do not have to publish any financials and they don't.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @11:06AM (#25672578)
Right, so we cannot assume it's profitable. It may or may not be.

It may be that Musk uses a string of companies to shuttle money between, who knows. He did manage to convince shareholders to buy his cousins'/brother's company which ended up being a huge liability. It seems to have saved him from the public seeing one of his family's companies fail.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by recursive on Thursday January 07, 2021 @03:27PM (#25676935)
> Right, so we cannot assume it's profitable. It may or may not be.

That makes sense, but can you assume it's not profitable?

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @07:35PM (#25679704)
The inverse doesn't work. Musk has not yet demonstrated he runs a profitable company. That's the bar which Jobs, Gates, and many other CEO's have shown which Musk has not yet shown.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by recursive on Thursday January 07, 2021 @08:08PM (#25680055)
You said he hasn't run a profitable company, not that he "hasn't demonstrated he's run a profitable company".

He's definitely a different kind of CEO.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @08:20PM (#25680171)
He's a liar. Promises self driving every year. Not even close
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by recursive on Thursday January 07, 2021 @08:27PM (#25680229)
Oh, you're talking about promising stuff that's not delivered? Maybe not so different from the likes of Gates and Jobs.

Of course, sometimes they did manage to deliver some of the things the promised also, like Musk.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Thursday January 07, 2021 @09:32PM (#25680771)
The inflated value of Tesla as a company is mostly based on full self driving whose status Musk has continually lied about for years. Gates/Jobs did nothing of the sort.
Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by recursive on Thursday January 07, 2021 @11:20PM (#25681471)
> The inflated value of Tesla as a company is mostly based on full self driving

I find this hard to believe. In fact I don't.

Re:Setting User-Agent Field? (1996) by unityByFreedom on Friday January 08, 2021 @01:26AM (#25682119)
Net expenses exceed net revenue, their cash comes from selling stock, and profits only come from selling regulatory credits given by governments.