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Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by chongli on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @08:42PM (#25666155)
Religion is not a tool. It was not designed by anyone. It's an emergent phenomenon, a product of culture.

Sure, some people (especially historically) have treated it like a tool, but that is not religion's fault (religion can't be at fault because it lacks agency). Those people would have seized upon whatever cultural phenomenon that was available to their own political purposes.

Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by arcticbull on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @09:11PM (#25666402)
> Religion is not a tool. It was not designed by anyone. It's an emergent phenomenon, a product of culture.

It absolutely was designed. Thoughtfully and explicitly.

You might find it interesting to learn about how the new testament was assembled. Many books did not make it into the final version of the new testament, left on the cutting room floor of history. The Gospel of Pseudo-Matthew for instance has a teenage Jesus fighting dragons. Check out the New Testament Apocrypha. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_apocrypha

Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by throwawaytolk on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @09:43PM (#25666646)
This is such an uninformed view; I am surprised to see it advanced on this forum.

Any scholar of the NT knows that the apochrypha date very late and the cannon is the legitimately oldest extant texts. There is no evidence that earlier texts were excluded. You do know (you probably don't) that the majority of the Pauline epistles are considered to be authentic, by secular atheist scholars, and date to to the middle of the first century right?

Outside of the pauline works, Hebrews is dated to no later than about 45 AD by secular, non believing scholars.

You're advacing a rather tired late 19th century view that just doesn't wash in the light of modern scholarship but was the darling of many 1800s and early 1900s lutherans.

Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by arcticbull on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @10:06PM (#25666783)
That's not actually the point I'm making. I'm not speaking to the veracity or authenticity of the selected texts. I've no basis to make that judgement. Thanks for sharing that, however, I find this stuff super interesting will dig into that more!

The point I'm making is that the new testament was curated and texts were picked and chosen to advance the interests of those picking and choosing.

Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by DangitBobby on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @11:53PM (#25667413)
The claim in question is that religion was designed for the sake of mass manipulation. Because some religions have been shaped and curated deliberately does not mean that religion didn't originally emerge organically as a consequence of shared culture.
Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by pyuser583 on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @10:25PM (#25666916)
Is the New Testament cannon the best example? Why not the Old Testament?

Ancient Jews saw the scriptures as possessing different levels of “cannonicity” - the Books of Moses were “very cannon” while books like Maccabees were “new fangled.”

Christians adopted that view as well. The fights over the Old Testament are still ongoing with different religions organically accepting or rejecting other books every now and then.

The logic behind these still ongoing arguments has much to do with traditions, and little with the actual content.

If we were to reevaluate the Old Testament with fresh eyes, I don’t think anyone would include Ecclesiastes or Job. Too depressing and bizarre.

Not even clear what’s going on or when it’s taking place.

But ultimately there’s a certain logic to these debates - and “we’re designing a religion” isn’t part of it.

Edit: Here’s an excellent example of how “non-designed” the Old Testament is: https://orthodoxwiki.org/Old_Testament_Canon

Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by mLuby on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @11:43PM (#25667355)
Since both you and sibling comment did it:

"Canon" is what's considered truth in a mythos (also a musical form and an electronics company).

"Cannon" is a type of gun.

Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by dooglius on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @09:27PM (#25666537)
From the linked page, it looks like this occurred hundreds of years after Christianity started, and after it was already quite well-established, so it doesn't seem accurate to say that the Christian religion was designed, even if the new testament was.
Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by arcticbull on Wednesday January 06, 2021 @09:32PM (#25666572)
Without venturing further back, which we can, consider that for most people the New Testament is the religion. The Old Testament is a collection of neo-pagan stories, fables and rules for fair play in olden times.
Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by ako on Thursday January 07, 2021 @02:09AM (#25668129)
Every society needs rules, ways to enforce these rules, ways to teach these rules, and ways to get people to align to common objectives.

Throughout history societies have used religion as a way to do this. Every society usually had one official religion that was used in this way: ancient egyptians, ancient greece, roman empire (first a religion copied from greece, later replaced by christianity, where the center of christianity was actually moved to rome), european kingsdoms with different versions of their official christian religions, and other countries throughout the world.

It's a pretty simple mechanism: follow our rules, god sees everything, if you don't follow the rules you will be punished, i.e., go to hell, if you follow the rules you will be rewarded, i.e., go to heaven.

We do the same thing with children in the hope that they'll listen to their parents: if you are a good boy/girl you get presents from sinterklaas (santaclause), if you are bad you will be be punished. Dutch santaclaus will take the bad children to spain, which is our version of hell ;-)

Funny thing is that children around the age of 8 will be smart enough to understand that they've been lied to and that santaclaus doesn't exist, whereas with religion some adults never get to this point of enlightenment.

Re:U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests by hoseja on Thursday January 07, 2021 @04:08AM (#25668910)
Just to add one more example to the contrary

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea