Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by SoSoRoCoCo on Thursday December 31, 2020 @02:31PM
(#25596210)
As a maker, this is very impressive. Custom builds with gears and motors sourced from various sites is very, very tricky. Matching bores and tooth pitches is hard enough, but mountings can really take a lot of physical trial-and-error.
I tend to default to ServoCity ActoBotix because there is great interoperability, but the tolerances are shaky.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by jstanley on Thursday December 31, 2020 @04:00PM
(#25597062)
I've found the easiest way to work with gears is to 3d print my own. That way you can (semi-)easily match them to the shaft diameters and to each other, and you can sometimes make them integral to the things they're driving, if those things are 3d printed too.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by SoSoRoCoCo on Thursday December 31, 2020 @05:49PM
(#25598095)
That's on my list to try!
I made a rotational-to-linear translator with adjustable linear depth using 1/4" HDPE and a gigantic OMAX waterjet cutter. The pitches were perfect to within 0.0001", but the design was five layers of gears, some were planetary, others slid on cams. Trying to connect planar gears is very effing hard when you can't use a pass-through collet (e.g., the pinion has to be FLUSH but yet allow rotation).
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by dekhn on Friday January 01, 2021 @09:57AM
(#25603654)
I print a lot of 3d gears too, but the one I couldn't manage was a fine pitch worm gear (I purchased the worm, and tried to print the gear) to drive a heliostat. Technically, I was able to print it and mount it, but tiny imperfections led to accuracy problems. I've had excellent results with larger herringbone gears.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by supernova87a on Friday January 01, 2021 @12:15AM
(#25601065)
By the way, maybe this is a slight off-topic (but parallel topic) -- will availability of cheaper Lidars make autofocus an easier / better solved problem some time in the future? Or is this not such a problem to bother with the expense of a Lidar?
If you know exactly the distance to something you want in focus, and it no longer has to be "solved" by phase detection, or edge sharpness? Or is this even already being used with phones having Lidars built in? I guess if your lens isn't perfectly distance calibrated then it fails though.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by mikeytown2 on Friday January 01, 2021 @12:53AM
(#25601220)
Sony and Canon both have phase detection on the sensor. it's fairly accurate and would serve the same purpose as lidar, get really close to perfect focus so contrast detection af can bring it to perfect focus fairly quickly.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by lemariva on Friday January 01, 2021 @01:58PM
(#25605662)
That can be also done. The pins are there (as you can see on the board design). I just wanted to separate the threads. It was easier to control the steppers with the M5Stack.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by Aaargh20318 on Thursday December 31, 2020 @03:14PM
(#25596644)
Telephoto has little to do with focal length, other than that it is often used in longer lenses to keep them smaller. It is a way of constructing a lens where the physical length of the lens is shorter than the focal length.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by oxxoxoxooo on Thursday December 31, 2020 @04:00PM
(#25597064)
Not sure why this gets down voted, it is the correct definition of "telephoto" (i.e. "the physical length of the lens is shorter than the focal length").
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by roelschroeven on Thursday December 31, 2020 @05:16PM
(#25597806)
It's the original/technical definition. In common parlance telephoto means small field of view.
The commonly used meaning has drifted from the original/technical definition. The same has happened with other things. 'Lens' for example, is technically one single element; the whole assembly is technically an 'objective'. But in photography the latter is what is commonly referred to as 'lens'.
Language isn't always precise and often context dependent (I don't always like that but there's not a lot I can do).
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by semi-extrinsic on Thursday December 31, 2020 @09:17PM
(#25600155)
I once attended a music festival where they banned attendees from bringing in telephoto lenses. Trouble was, they didn't specify it as "35mm-equivalent", so my PowerShot SX40 was allowed in - at 840 mm equivalent for the highest zoom. It was funny, kinda spurred me to get some nice closeups of artists performing.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by auxym on Thursday December 31, 2020 @04:26PM
(#25597343)
Actually, they haven't? All Canon EF-S lenses (so aps-c only) are marketed solely by the actual focal length and not the FF equivalent. To the best of my knowledge, it's the same in other brands, even in micro 4/3.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by pmiller2 on Thursday December 31, 2020 @04:37PM
(#25597446)
So, wait... are you telling me that my Nikkor 105mm f/2.8 macro lens is really acting like a ...uses 35mm equivalent calculator... 160.65mm f/4.28 on my D3400?
Edit: updated to clarify exactly what calculation I was doing.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by roelschroeven on Thursday December 31, 2020 @05:30PM
(#25597922)
It has the same (approximate) field of view on your D3400 as a 160.65 mm lens would have on a full frame camera, yes. 157,5 mm come to think of it actually: as far as I know the crop factor on Nikon crop cameras is 1.5. On a medium format camera you would need an even longer lens to get the same field of view.
I'm not sure about the aperture equivalent. Aperture influences both exposure and depth-of-field, and I don't think they vary in the same way between crop cameras and full frame cameras.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by knolan on Thursday December 31, 2020 @04:51PM
(#25597568)
I’m pretty sure EF-S focal lengths are 35mm equivalent. They just project a smaller image circle and the rear element is closer to the sensor (so will likely crash the mirror on a full frame camera).
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by roelschroeven on Thursday December 31, 2020 @05:22PM
(#25597864)
I just had a look at EF-S lenses at https://www.bhphotovideo.com. I didn't see anyone that used the 35 mm equivalent focal length in its name. For example, the first is called "Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM". The details mention "38.4mm (35mm Equivalent)", so 24 mm really is the real focal length, not the 35 mm equivalent one.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by knolan on Friday January 01, 2021 @04:23AM
(#25601953)
APS-C is a 1.6 crop. If you put a 24mm lens on a full frame 5D and a 24*1.6=38.4 mm lens on a APS-C 7D you will see the same angle of view.
The focal length numbers printed on an EF or an EF-s lens are the same thing for consistency. The crop factor isn’t included. So if you take a photo on a full frame 5D and also an APS-C 7D and crop accordingly to account for the difference in sensor size you get the same thing.
So what do the numbers printed on the lens correspond to? It’s hard to find but this canon page suggests it’s 35mm equivalent:
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by roelschroeven on Friday January 01, 2021 @07:06AM
(#25602694)
> The focal length numbers printed on an EF or an EF-s lens are the same thing for consistency. The crop factor isn’t included. So if you take a photo on a full frame 5D and also an APS-C 7D and crop accordingly to account for the difference in sensor size you get the same thing.
No, that seems to be a misunderstanding. The focal lengths on the lenses are the real focal lengths, not the 35mm-equivalent ones. For example, have a look at the EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM [1] The name says it's focal length is 24mm; that 24mm is also printed on the lens. The description says "a 35mm equivalent focal length of 38mm". So clearly its 35mm-equivalent focal length is 35mm, and its real focal length is 24mm.
What that page indicates is the crop factor for each camera (i.e. the ratio of its sensor size to a 35 mm sensor, equal to the factor you have to multiply the real focal length with to get the 35mm-equivalent focal length). For the 7D, the table says that the 35mm-Equivalent Focal Length is "Approximately equivalent to 1.6 x the lens focal length". Let's apply that to our 24mm-lens above. 1.6 x 24mm = 38.4mm, which is essentially the same as the 35mm in the description (focal length specifications are not very precise anyways).
So it checks out: the number on the lens is the real focal length; to get the 35-mm equivalent focal length you can either look it up in the specifications or simply multiply with the crop factor.
I'm not very familiar with Canon, but as I presume you can put EF lenses on APS-C cameras (I know the equivalent of that works in the Nikon world). If you compare an EF 50mm lens and an EF-S 50mm lens on the same APS-C camera, you'll notice both have the same field of view. Because the focal lengths are the real focal lengths, they behave the same when placed on the same camera.
But if you compare an EF lens on a APS-C camera with that same lens on a full frame camera, you'll see that it has a wider field of view on the full frame camera (because the full frame camera has a sensor that's 1.6x the size).
When reading about focal lengths, always make sure to understand what reference the author uses; it's often not explicitly mentioned. For example, people often say a "normal" lens (i.e. a lens with a field of view that appears natural for us humans) is a 50mm lens. But that's only true for full frame sensors. For other sensors (or films) you need the equivalent: for APS-C (or Nikon DX) it's around 35mm, for medium formats it's 75mm or larger depending.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by knolan on Friday January 01, 2021 @10:01AM
(#25603672)
I get that, I’ve been shooting for twenty years.
The confusion is that the true focal length and the full frame 35mm focal length are used interchangeably. The Canon link doesn’t make it clear other than to suggest it doesn’t really matter once you use 35 mm as your reference point.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by dukeofdoom on Thursday December 31, 2020 @07:18PM
(#25598976)
would be cool to pair this with AI to snap photos of specific animals or birds. As a trail camera or a bird feeder camera.
For example record only Blue Jays or Cardinals. If it could spin around to capture action that would be great too.
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by pbhjpbhj on Thursday December 31, 2020 @04:13PM
(#25597192)
Which is unlawful if your users are in Europe (and also possibly of they're just from Europe?). You are obliged not to discriminate against users who choose not to be tracked (or whatever).
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by sbarre on Friday January 01, 2021 @12:20PM
(#25604774)
So, theoretically speaking - because I'm not from the EU - if I choose to not comply with that law, is it my responsibility to figure out a technical manner to block EU users from accessing my content, in this global Internet world?
Re:Autofocus for the 16mm Telephoto Lens Mounted on the Rasp...
by bobthebuilders on Thursday December 31, 2020 @07:04PM
(#25598843)
Do you have a a link? If you're based in the EU I assume so, but the EU doesn't regulate the world. (At least directly, if you comply with GDPR you're likely to port that over to other regions to avoid possible legal issues)
I tend to default to ServoCity ActoBotix because there is great interoperability, but the tolerances are shaky.
I made a rotational-to-linear translator with adjustable linear depth using 1/4" HDPE and a gigantic OMAX waterjet cutter. The pitches were perfect to within 0.0001", but the design was five layers of gears, some were planetary, others slid on cams. Trying to connect planar gears is very effing hard when you can't use a pass-through collet (e.g., the pinion has to be FLUSH but yet allow rotation).
http://info.omax.com/precision
Average of ±0.003" (±0.08 mm) and up to 0.001” (±25 µ)
About the same as a laser cutter.
You set it to cut very slowly and it angles the head to account for motion and material deformation (you need to program the type of material).
If you know exactly the distance to something you want in focus, and it no longer has to be "solved" by phase detection, or edge sharpness? Or is this even already being used with phones having Lidars built in? I guess if your lens isn't perfectly distance calibrated then it fails though.
Fuji's 27mm pancake lens is only 23mm tall. A telephoto lens it is not.
The commonly used meaning has drifted from the original/technical definition. The same has happened with other things. 'Lens' for example, is technically one single element; the whole assembly is technically an 'objective'. But in photography the latter is what is commonly referred to as 'lens'.
Language isn't always precise and often context dependent (I don't always like that but there's not a lot I can do).
https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART14...
The confusion comes from the equivalence of the actual focal length of the lens and the 35mm focal length on a full frame sensor.
Edit: updated to clarify exactly what calculation I was doing.
I'm not sure about the aperture equivalent. Aperture influences both exposure and depth-of-field, and I don't think they vary in the same way between crop cameras and full frame cameras.
The focal length numbers printed on an EF or an EF-s lens are the same thing for consistency. The crop factor isn’t included. So if you take a photo on a full frame 5D and also an APS-C 7D and crop accordingly to account for the difference in sensor size you get the same thing.
So what do the numbers printed on the lens correspond to? It’s hard to find but this canon page suggests it’s 35mm equivalent:
https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART14...
No, that seems to be a misunderstanding. The focal lengths on the lenses are the real focal lengths, not the 35mm-equivalent ones. For example, have a look at the EF-S 24mm f/2.8 STM [1] The name says it's focal length is 24mm; that 24mm is also printed on the lens. The description says "a 35mm equivalent focal length of 38mm". So clearly its 35mm-equivalent focal length is 35mm, and its real focal length is 24mm.
[1] https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/portal/us/home/products/d...
> So what do the numbers printed on the lens correspond to? It’s hard to find but this canon page suggests it’s 35mm equivalent: https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART14...
What that page indicates is the crop factor for each camera (i.e. the ratio of its sensor size to a 35 mm sensor, equal to the factor you have to multiply the real focal length with to get the 35mm-equivalent focal length). For the 7D, the table says that the 35mm-Equivalent Focal Length is "Approximately equivalent to 1.6 x the lens focal length". Let's apply that to our 24mm-lens above. 1.6 x 24mm = 38.4mm, which is essentially the same as the 35mm in the description (focal length specifications are not very precise anyways).
So it checks out: the number on the lens is the real focal length; to get the 35-mm equivalent focal length you can either look it up in the specifications or simply multiply with the crop factor.
I'm not very familiar with Canon, but as I presume you can put EF lenses on APS-C cameras (I know the equivalent of that works in the Nikon world). If you compare an EF 50mm lens and an EF-S 50mm lens on the same APS-C camera, you'll notice both have the same field of view. Because the focal lengths are the real focal lengths, they behave the same when placed on the same camera.
But if you compare an EF lens on a APS-C camera with that same lens on a full frame camera, you'll see that it has a wider field of view on the full frame camera (because the full frame camera has a sensor that's 1.6x the size).
When reading about focal lengths, always make sure to understand what reference the author uses; it's often not explicitly mentioned. For example, people often say a "normal" lens (i.e. a lens with a field of view that appears natural for us humans) is a 50mm lens. But that's only true for full frame sensors. For other sensors (or films) you need the equivalent: for APS-C (or Nikon DX) it's around 35mm, for medium formats it's 75mm or larger depending.
The confusion is that the true focal length and the full frame 35mm focal length are used interchangeably. The Canon link doesn’t make it clear other than to suggest it doesn’t really matter once you use 35 mm as your reference point.