News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by oblio on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @04:34AM (#25580108)
I don't know what kind of economic books you've read, but mine had terms such as "hyperinflation" in them :-)

If anything, stuff like global currencies ($, €) bail out their respective owners because they're world reserve currencies. Some of the smaller Eurozone countries would have definitely defaulted, had hyperinflation, etc, without the Euro. Now they're in recession instead, which sucks a lot but still less than the alternative.

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by imtringued on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @05:39AM (#25580536)
>I don't know what kind of economic books you've read, but mine had terms such as "hyperinflation" in them :-)

You don't have to issue more currency/debt once you have reached the target inflation rate because if you manage to hit the right inflation rate every year you have already executed your stimulus properly and are reducing unemployment. Consumer inflation is a proxy for worker income because most of the goods or services that are indexed are the product of labor. If the stimulus arrives in the hands of workers first it will mean that worker salaries will grow ahead of inflation.

>If anything, stuff like global currencies ($, €) bail out their respective owners because they're world reserve currencies. Some of the smaller Eurozone countries would have definitely defaulted, had hyperinflation, etc, without the Euro. Now they're in recession instead, which sucks a lot but still less than the alternative.

They are in recession because of a lack of demand for domestic workers which is basically the problem that moderate inflation would solve.

Just look at these charts:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/225698/monthly-inflation...

Inflation is high in Poland and Hungary. Does this mean they suffer from problems? Actually no it's the opposite.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/268830/unemployment-rate...

Poland has the second lowest unemployment rate and Hungary is still well below the EU average. Please bear in mind that this chart only shows the inflation rate in August. I chose this chart because it is a easy to read bar chart. Some numbers may be outliers but the general trend will be the same no matter what chart you look at.

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by js8 on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @05:00AM (#25580290)
MMT doesn't say you can't have hyperinflation due to economic mismanagement, it just says you can bootstrap yourself out of unemployment (a crisis) by printing money.

Just because a government is printing money it doesn't yet mean they practice a sane economic policy, which would be to increase the demand to meet the supply of labor.

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by Scandiravian on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @05:13AM (#25580353)
I have never understood, why everyone brings up inflation as an argument against this, as if that isn't something that already exists

Inflation is only an issue if you spend money beyond what is required to achieve full employment in the workforce, since new money in the system is balanced with new wealth being generated through work

Inflation can then be controlled through taxation. Raising taxes pulls money out of circulation, thereby reducing inflation

Private banks already have the ability to create money out of thin air, but for some weird reason, that's apparently not really an issue for most people

I can't think of any small European countries that I can imagine defaulting without the euro. Could you specify which ones you think would have defaulted?

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by oblio on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @06:32AM (#25580815)
Greece, for sure.

They would have defaulted and the drachma would have probably been at a point where a loaf of bread would cost millions of drachmas.

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by Scandiravian on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @07:12AM (#25580997)
On the contrary, the eurozone is a massive reason for the Greek economy collapsing as catastrophically as it did in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis

It also doesn't matter how "many" of a currency is needed for a loaf of bread, as long as the supply is available. The Italian lira was extremely inexpensive, but as long as the government made sure the supply matched the demand there was no issue

Edit: I'd also say that Greece is not really a "smaller European country", being the 14th most populous European country

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by oblio on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @07:15AM (#25581016)
What about savings? What about salaries? Hyperinflation absolutely wrecks the lives of regular people.
Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by Scandiravian on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @08:39AM (#25581550)
What about them?

You're just listing questions without contributing with any alternatives or reflection on what has been said by others

Hyperinflation is an extreme case and others have already posted several answers to this, which you have chosen to ignore

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by oblio on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @09:01AM (#25581711)
Is there any country that defaulted and didn't suffer from hyperinflation? I can't think of any.

I've chosen to ignore the rest because everyone treats hyperinflation like a rare occurrence, under the circumstances.

Re:European Citizen's Initiative for Unconditional Basic Income by Scandiravian on Wednesday December 30, 2020 @09:26AM (#25581927)
You're just listing more questions now

I don't see how the number of defaulted countries that experienced hyperinflation is relevant to whether MTT is an accurate model for describing economical systems

I also can't find any responses to your post that states hyperinflation is a rare occurrence. On the contrary, there's answers to most of the questions you've asked me

I'm not interested in convincing you of one thing or another. I want to broaden my horizon through discussion, so if the only thing you bring to the table is questions that could be easily googled, I'm not interested in continuing this conversation