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Re:Amazon to face U.S. union push in year ahead by freeone3000 on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @08:07PM (#25524154)
Professional organizations take their place for regulated professions - so the AMA for doctors and the NIBA for Investment Bankers.

But programming isn't a regulated profession. It doesn't have a professional organization. Your "cred" is reputational and based on work history, not on actual credentials or licensure. It's closer in this sense to a trade, like electrical work or plumbing, where members frequently are unionized.

Why unionize? Because your facial recognition tech is being used to round up Uigurs, or bomb Yemeni weddings, or bake cakes for gay people. To have actual say over the products you work on, and how they're used.

Re:Amazon to face U.S. union push in year ahead by unitedwestand on Thursday December 24, 2020 @12:11AM (#25525219)
You can also unionize for better conditions and more money! NBA stars do, and rightfully so! I don't understand why many engineers feel like collective bargaining for more money is somehow dirty or an appropriation of a tool that is reserved for extremely oppressed workers. Engineers are extremely valuable to their employers, and are still probably under-compensated relative to the value they bring in.

Tech companies have no problem working together, illegally, to keep wages down. Workers should work together, legally, to push wages up. This does not mean that compensation needs to be based on seniority or anything like that, and union contracts do not necessarily mean an end to worker flexibility. Engineers can propose whatever rules they think are fair.

However, I do agree that ethical concerns are a strong reason to organize, and a proper subject for union negotiations.

Re:Amazon to face U.S. union push in year ahead by lawnchair_larry on Thursday December 24, 2020 @04:23AM (#25526136)
> You can also unionize for better conditions and more money! NBA stars do, and rightfully so!

No you can’t. This is a very young and naive view. The NBA is a monopoly. It will absolutely not be the same when implemented in the tech industry. Not only will you earn less, but your stock will take a huge hit.

> Tech companies have no problem working together, illegally, to keep wages down.

This was 10 years ago and isn’t happening. The incredible salary inflation makes this pretty obvious.

Re:Amazon to face U.S. union push in year ahead by LatteLazy on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @08:17PM (#25524222)
I don't see the relevance of some professions being regulated. A dev is skilled labour whether they're regulated or not. Being not easily replaceable puts them in the same category as the others I listed.

Your points on Why unionise? have wondered a bit if you don't mind me saying. Again, I'm all for people having a moral stance. But if you do, why did you join the Amazon Facial Recognition and Military Tech department? And why would unionising actually stop that work being done, rather than just move it to MS or Apple or Halliburton? And even if you did, why bother including the pickers? They don't care about amazon tech and you wouldn't need them to close the tech centre down...

Re:Amazon to face U.S. union push in year ahead by nobodyandproud on Wednesday December 23, 2020 @09:51PM (#25524634)
> I don't see the relevance of some professions being regulated. A dev is skilled labour whether they're regulated or not. Being not easily replaceable puts them in the same category as the others I listed

First you say, Doctors don’t have unions.

Then you move the goalpost when it’s pointed out that many skilled professions do have something effectively similar.

The reason for having one isn’t just about pay.

Re:Amazon to face U.S. union push in year ahead by LatteLazy on Thursday December 24, 2020 @10:21AM (#25528181)
I'm trying hard here to give the benefit of the doubt. Help me understand: how is the AMA a union? Especially the sort of union people are suggesting for amazon. Specifically:

* do they negotiate standard wages, hours and work conditions?

* do they organise strikes and other action when they don't get what their members want?

* do they also represent unskilled workers, say hospital cleaners (as was being suggested for the amazon Union)?

Help me out here. Am I missing something? I'm no expert so I'm happy to be corrected...

Re:Amazon to face U.S. union push in year ahead by nobodyandproud on Thursday December 24, 2020 @11:28PM (#25534195)
Sure: First, throw away the narrow conception of what you think a trade union is.

A trade union is simply an organization of workers to achieve a shared goal. That’s it.

For many trade associations, safety standards is a big one, and it becomes more important as the trade is more skilled.

So for instance, it’s the AMA that promoted the standards of medicine over the century and a half and lobbied to prevent quacks from practicing as “medical doctors”.

Do you believe the fragmented and haphazard standards in software today and management’s race to the bottom is beneficial to consumers or to society?