News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by hef19898 on Monday December 21, 2020 @07:01AM (#25494104)
Cameras =!= Lenses.

I always found Nikon cameras more my taste than canon. But that is just taste, in terms of quality, in the sense of the pictures, I never saw a difference. Not back the day when we still developed our black and white pictures ourselves and not now with digital cameras.

Lenses on the other hand a different thing altogether. There I saw defferences between the "cheaper" Sigma and the premium Nikkor ones. Not always but sometimes. I would assume that the new mirrirless cameras are less complex to build, so maybe the Thailand based manufacturing facilities are best suited. After all, it's the lense and the person behind the camera that counts.

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by robotmay on Monday December 21, 2020 @07:17AM (#25494206)
I think camera bodies make a much larger difference these days than lenses, actually. Obviously the lens still makes a notable difference, and for certain forms, like wildlife photography, the lens requirements are inescapable. The new models out in the past few years have absolutely incredible low-light performance that completely change the lens landscape, even; you can now ditch the requirement of carrying a hefty f/2.8 400mm lens around and swap it out for a lightweight f/4 with a camera that more than compensates for the light loss.

But with the capabilities of modern cameras the production requirements for them are high and the challenge to make something that works for a variety of consumers even higher. I can't even look at a camera that isn't "weather-proofed" as I live in a place with a 90% chance of rain at any moment, for example. And a lot of these advancements are designed to work in combination with the lenses, such as in-body and in-lens stabilisation working together, weather seals that line up, etc. I think it's pretty important to maintain the same manufacturing quality between the two areas. I'm sure that's possible when moving production to Thailand, but I expect it will take time for them to iron out their processes.

My personal experience of Canon vs Nikon is that I prefer the software of Canon, and historically I preferred the physical ergonomics of Nikon, but the newest Canon models have improved a lot there. On the lens side it was always Canon for me, although I do have a lot of love for Sigma: my 150-600mm Sigma lens has a USB dock where I can actually manually configure the autofocus, among other things, which appeals to my gadget side (and honestly their quality has jumped up massively in the past decade).

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by ghaff on Monday December 21, 2020 @08:35AM (#25494761)
Sigma used to be one of the brands you bought because you didn't have the money for the camera manufacturer's lens. Now, they have unique models in a number of cases. I still have mostly Canon glass but I have a couple Sigma models because Canon doesn't have the equivalent.
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by trm42 on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:36PM (#25497878)
I belive Sigma realized that they need to up their game and a lot because the Chinese cheapo manufacturers (and partially Samyang) are eating the really low end niche. Of course Samyang has upped their game with the AF-equipped Sony FE -lenses as well, but they are still low end compared to nowadays quite good Sigma mirrorless offerings.
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by Matrixik on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @11:18AM (#25507792)
Same happen with Tamron. They new lenses for Sony cameras are great. They newest "super" zoom 28-200 is basically best zoom of this type from any brand.
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by LandR on Monday December 21, 2020 @11:42AM (#25496566)
Haven't used a sigma lense for years. Are they now comparable quality to NIkon/Canon lenses?
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by robotmay on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:15PM (#25497636)
I have a Sigma 150-600mm Sport, which is a hell of a lens, both in quality/features and uh...weight :D

It's totally hand-holdable, but reviews online make me wonder if everyone else has pipe cleaners for arms; it took a couple of weeks to get used to it but I don't have any trouble now. The image quality is fantastic and extremely competitive. The image-stabilisation works superbly, and the autofocus is very good - much better than their older lenses.

I mostly photograph birds and I'm extremely happy with the quality. All the recent bird photos I've uploaded are taken with it: https://www.flickr.com/photos/robotmay/50528664881/in/datepo...

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by LandR on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:58PM (#25498125)
Thanks, your photos are great.

I'd like to get myself a long lense for those kinds of shots but I really can't afford Nikon prices!

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by robotmay on Monday December 21, 2020 @03:00PM (#25498854)
That was exactly my thought process too :D There's pretty much nothing else in the price range of the Sport that does 600mm at less than f/8, and the Contemporary model has 90% of the performance of the Sport but at an even more digestible price. For birds the lens length can never be long enough, and I think the Sigma range is in a great price point where it's expensive enough to be good but you're not paying more for marginal gains. Plus some of their latest lenses can be hooked up to a USB dock to allow you to customise them a bit, such as making micro-focus adjustments, which is really cool.
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by Der_Einzige on Monday December 21, 2020 @12:26PM (#25497086)
Sigma makes some of the best and highest quality lenses (compared to competitors), at least that's my experience with a Sony E mount aps-c camera...
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by iamatworknow on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:03PM (#25497515)
They're way better than they used to be. I have a few Sigma "Art" lenses that are incredible, at half the price (at least at the time) of the Nikon equivalents.
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by hef19898 on Monday December 21, 2020 @07:50AM (#25494437)
Honestly, my active days are over a bit. Back the day, so, I was part of an active group photographers, mostl ynature and outdoor. Like back when we still used film.

Can't agree more on the weather-proof part. I was ather funny to be out taking pictures all day, only to find the camera was sitting in 5 cm of water in its protective bag. Nikon did work better druing that, than. Just an anecdote so, some Nikon's didn't like it that good neither.

Some Sigma lenses were really good back than, some on par with Nikkor. Canon lenses were, if I remember well, mostly on par with Nikkor. Been used to Nikon so, I always to break the lighter Canon camera bodies.

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by foldr on Monday December 21, 2020 @11:44AM (#25496586)
>I think it's pretty important to maintain the same manufacturing quality between the two areas. I'm sure that's possible when moving production to Thailand, but I expect it will take time for them to iron out their processes.

Nikon have already been making weather-sealed cameras in Thailand for ages (e.g. the D7500). I think your concerns here are overblown. Any quality problems with their Thai manufacturing operation would already be apparent, given that most of their cameras are made there.

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by m463 on Monday December 21, 2020 @09:56AM (#25495438)
> I think camera bodies make a much larger difference these days than lenses, actually.

They always have. Yet strangely you can buy an L lens and it may outlast a whole series of bodies. (if we continue to have DSLRs that is).

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by hef19898 on Monday December 21, 2020 @12:16PM (#25496977)
Oh yeah, that's true! Also worked well between analog and digital SLRs in Nikon's case. After accounting for different film/sensor sizes. My old Sigma is showing its age so, last time I tried.
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by sudosysgen on Tuesday December 22, 2020 @10:05AM (#25506869)
You can even use the 80-200 2.8 L on even a Sony A7RIV, so certainly! That's what, 30 years?
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by reaperducer on Monday December 21, 2020 @12:15PM (#25496965)
There I saw defferences between the "cheaper" Sigma and the premium Nikkor ones

I've always wondered what the difference is between Sigma and a brand like Canon or Nikon.

I used to have both Canon and Sigma lenses. The Sigmas felt different, and the pictures they produced had a different "look" for what was supposed to be an equivalent lens. My eye isn't trained for these sorts of things, so I was never able to quantify it.

What is it that Sigma does that makes its lenses cheaper than the others?

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by robotmay on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:09PM (#25497580)
Sigma tend to do what Canon do; provide a range of similar lenses but with varying features. As an example, I have the 150-600mm Sport lens, which is fantastic; it's weather-sealed, has great autofocus, and full image stabilisation, but it's still ~£1300, which is a lot of money. It also weighs quite a lot. However the image quality is exceptional and by no means worse than anything else on the market in that range; it punches at the same level as the Canon 100-400mm IS II, which is about £800 more.

So they also do a 150-600mm Contemporary model, which has 90% of the performance. It doesn't have full weather-sealing, and it has a different element arrangement which slightly changes the picture quality, but it also drops a huge chunk off the weight and about £400 off the price. It's not quite as solidly built but for a lot of people it's more than enough and provides a good alternative.

In my personal experience Sigma lenses tend to be heavier than Canon for equivalent build quality. ~10 years ago I'd say the picture quality was slightly poorer, but now they compete very well in a variety of ranges.

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by Der_Einzige on Monday December 21, 2020 @12:24PM (#25497067)
Leaves OSS out of all their lenses. That's what they do. Annoys me that the best fast prime for my sony A6100 (sigma f1.4s) won't work for video because of this. I'm stuck with the far shittier sony f1.8s...
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by samatman on Monday December 21, 2020 @12:53PM (#25497371)
This was what pushed me to get the a6600, the autofocus on the fast Sigma primes is quite adequate, good even, and IBIS means I can do some video off-the-hand if I'm careful. The much larger battery was also a factor.

My use case also involves a fair amount of tripod work, and I even picked up a gimbal just recently.

So I'm glad that Sigma is making lenses which are cheaper / better for the price by leaving out OSS, because there are ways to not need it. If you figure OSS would cost another $200 per lens, which seems a little low but is in the ballpark, then with the Sigma 'trio' of 1.4 primes, the difference between the a6100 and a6600 is just about a wash.

Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by throwaway201103 on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:16PM (#25497649)
OSS is.... ?
Re:Nikon Is ending 70 years of camera production in Japan by stan_rogers on Monday December 21, 2020 @01:50PM (#25498041)
OIS (optical image stabilization) mistyped or "branded".