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Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by ortusdux on Friday December 18, 2020 @10:41AM (#25468087)
Plenty of negativity in the comments here. Used properly, a system like this could be a boon to the forestry industry, invasive species management, and forest fire fighting and prevention, among other things.

A friend did his PhD in lidar mapping of trees and forests, with a focus on identifying risk trees. He primarily focused on roadside trees that were a danger to drivers, but that was in part due to the ease of lidar mapping from a vehicle. He did trials with drone imaging, but they had to be manually controlled, which made them no better than people.

I live near a national park, and they average several lost hikers and roughly one death a year. The majority of those are due to poor planning and injury (FFS always check in at a ranger station, tell someone your schedule/route, and stay on the trial if you are injured!). A system like this with thermal cameras could find injured people much faster than a search party every could.

Half the battle of fighting a forest fire is understanding its location and boundaries, and tracking/predicting its movement. A system like this could be augmented with smoke particulate sensors and thermal cameras.

Many ecosystems are being devastated by invasive species. Wild hogs, anacondas, airborne pests. Early attempts to track 'murder' hornets were hampered because the scientists could not follow their transponders effectively.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by roenxi on Friday December 18, 2020 @06:29PM (#25473404)
> Plenty of negativity in the comments here.

Mostly fear. There are a lot of people suffering out there right now and the risk of that leading to a war is real. This is a salient reminder that militaries can send a drone anywhere and mow people down.

The forestry industry is nice and all, but tech like this is going to literally kill people. That will be the most interesting application in this decade.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by systemvoltage on Friday December 18, 2020 @07:31PM (#25473787)
Consider drones/AI-tech similar to nuclear weapons in terms of its deterrace as well as assault capabitities.

- What if adversaries develop full AI-tech with weapons mounted on them? How can a nation defend against such a threat?

- What if democracies around the world get wiped out by such a tech which has no public opposition in communist/ authoritarian states? They will and are developing such technology.

- We just saw the use of (non-AI) drone military tech in the Armenia-Azerbaijan war. Being defenseless is not an option.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by hnracer on Friday December 18, 2020 @09:37PM (#25474484)
Exactly, the autocratic CCP is heavily investing in military drone capabilities, we really have no choice but to remain one step ahead. If we lived in a world without such regimes then that wouldn't be an unfortunate pragmatic necessity.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by ygjb on Friday December 18, 2020 @10:25PM (#25474713)
What a completely ethnocentric and asinine perspective. I am not defending China here - obviously they are up to a lot of problematic atuff.

If it wasn't the CCP, it would be Russia again, or if not Russia, then another emerging power. In 10 or 20 years it could be India, or the fragmented parts of European Union that combine to form authoritarian regimes if the swings toward autocracy continue.

Every military force is investing in drone technology because any military force in the world is investing in drone technology, and while the US was the leader for a long time, the push to outsource manufacturing and globalization led to a broad distribution of the skills, tools, and manufacturing base to build modern drones.

China is no more the root cause of the arms race than Thog was when he hit Ugh with a stick some time in ancient history. Its humans and tribalism all the way down.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by hnracer on Saturday December 19, 2020 @06:13PM (#25482188)
That's a rather unnecessarily aggressive comment. What I said is not ethnocentric (you're presuming I'm American or white?) or asinine.

You're not considering the historical consequences of your perspective. And I made no such claim that China is the root cause of the arms race, that's a strawman.

Historical counterfactual: What would've happened in WW2 in Asia if the US had no aircraft carriers because some pacifists convinced the administration that investing in arms was just tit for tat tribalism and contributing to an arms race?

If you can't explain why the US should not invest in drones today but they should've invested in aircraft carriers in the 1930s and 1940s, then you're holding a sack filled with little more than misplaced confidence.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by raarts on Saturday December 19, 2020 @12:38AM (#25475369)
China is suppressing its population to great extend. More than other countries save North Korea. All school books are filled with propaganda and children need to recite xi's virtues every day. It's a brainwash machine and totalitarian. So far they are not a worldwide military power and the US cannot be conquered but this technology could change that. Deploy them in millions. Never think your opponent has the same moral values as you.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by hnracer on Saturday December 19, 2020 @06:21PM (#25482251)
Precisely. His line of thinking would've played out to a disastrous end in the 1930s-1940s era, "oh if it wasn't for the Japanese or Germans it'd be X". Some people and some regimes are psychopathic in nature, that's the unfortunate reality, and such regimes, especially those with expansionist desires (ever heard the CCP's rhetoric about Taiwan?) have every incentive to invest in military capabilities irrespective of whether others are doing so too.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by rscho on Friday December 18, 2020 @08:19PM (#25474084)
Yes! Let's vote to make more killing machines instead of funding schools and hospitals!
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by sakopov on Friday December 18, 2020 @12:18PM (#25469353)
You're hitting the nail on the head. Forestry is probably one of the most underserved markets. The opportunities here are abound even in the most fundamental areas like forest management.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by aaron695 on Friday December 18, 2020 @04:09PM (#25472056)
> A system like this with thermal cameras could find injured people much faster than a search party every could.

This is done a lot, you are not used to the idea of 'Swarm/Formation' so you are using it to cure everything.

One long range drone with thermal cameras (and other wavelengths) is all you need. No formation is needed or wanted.

I still rarely see even one drone used. We need to start with one, if its useful.

I can give you many locations with invasive species, swarms won't solve that. Unless you give the swarms guns.

But one drone with a gun would kill pests fine. I think even with hunting humans most killing wouldn't need formations.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by meheleventyone on Friday December 18, 2020 @11:20AM (#25468539)
The main issue there is flight time. Most small drones have very limited endurance.

That said SAR already use drones to help search when weather permits.

For autonomous systems one thing I find interesting is how far they have to go in this sort of domain versus a good human pilot for example: https://youtu.be/bFVvUeP_oqY?t=36

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by notional on Friday December 18, 2020 @11:53AM (#25468968)
Speaking of SAR, well the other SAR (Synthetic-aperture radar) it was discussed yesterday that a radar reflector can be used to bounce SAR signals back, which would highlight your location, such as it's used for marine applications.

Perhaps carrying one of these folded up ready to deploy in an emergency wouldn't be a terrible idea as the availability of SAR imaging goes up. Much cheaper to carry that than some of the GPS/beacon devices sold to hikers. Image detection is already a common ML tool for Earth observation analysis so building in something that looks for that marker in a known area of forest sounds possible.

https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Selecting-a-Radar-Ref...

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by meheleventyone on Friday December 18, 2020 @12:05PM (#25469147)
The traditional version of that is a bright orange square or signal mirror. They pack down really small and are extremely visible. Similarly little IR and retroreflective glint squares are handy for spotting people at night.

That said if you're doing anything serious away from people carrying a GPS and EPIRB/SPOT is way more effective. The latter working even in the most remote locations. It's no good being able to signal if no one is even looking for you.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by takk309 on Friday December 18, 2020 @07:32PM (#25473793)
There is already a product on the market call RECCO. It is a two part system very similar to what you described. The reflector is seen directly into coat, boots, you name it. SAR then uses a device that sends out a signal that bounces off the reflectors.

https://recco.com/technology/

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by ortusdux on Friday December 18, 2020 @11:41AM (#25468812)
Here is one example of an automated drone charging base: http://www.edronic.com/

Others are working on drone charging systems that are faster than the unit's flight time: https://dronelife.com/2020/08/01/a-drone-battery-that-charge...

To the best of my knowledge, all SAR drones operate above the tree canopy. The forest I live by has, even at peak occupancy, more people sized animals than people. It makes thermal imaging through a dense canopy difficult at best. A good friend spent 2 years as a coast guard pilot stationed near me, and he spent the majority of his time doing SAR training. He was the one to describe the issues with thermal imaging above the canopy. We discussed using drones at length, and his main issue was the risk that they might randomly enter his flight path and damage a rotor. Operating below the canopy would eliminate this risk.

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by meheleventyone on Friday December 18, 2020 @11:45AM (#25468864)
Well I live in Iceland and we famously have no trees. :D
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by Baeocystin on Friday December 18, 2020 @02:20PM (#25470811)
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by omgwtfbyobbq on Friday December 18, 2020 @02:34PM (#25470955)
I think some sort of hybrid balloon/drone could be more suited for certain tasks. Still, the demonstration shows that we could have a fleet of whatever navigate a forest.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by pontifier on Saturday December 19, 2020 @01:07AM (#25475485)
Wow, I really want to see a photogrammetry system that can turn that video into to a reconstruction of the area.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by bigbubba on Friday December 18, 2020 @08:26PM (#25474127)
Do you really need to get thermal cameras below the canopy to see forest fires? I think even satellites can see fires on thermal. Drones flying above the trees should work too.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by poochy on Friday December 18, 2020 @11:24AM (#25468573)
The work of your friend sounds fascinating. Can you link to any published material? My professional work relates to tree risk and spatial analysis. Would love to see some of the higher level research.
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by ortusdux on Friday December 18, 2020 @11:49AM (#25468926)
This should be a good start: https://www.mdpi.com/journal/forests/special_issues/LiDAR_In...

Keep in mind that timber cruising is an industry, so there are also plenty of focus on software and hardware to speed up inventories: https://www.fs.fed.us/forestmanagement/products/measurement/...

Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by Triv888 on Friday December 18, 2020 @08:10PM (#25474020)
Re:A swarm of drones flying through heavy forest–while stayi... by mistrial9 on Friday December 18, 2020 @02:41PM (#25471031)
Forests are "managed" plenty and dying at a massive rate. Local rednecks use the uniform and new equipment to track nature loving stoners. Wild mega-fauna who are true citizens of this place are the target of weaponized tech and have been for millenia, resulting in their massive over hunting to extinction. The narrative of "keeping hikers safe" and "clearing the roads" takes into account none of this, and aids some of it -- wilderness road building.

Sorry, not sorry