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Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by paulpauper on Monday December 14, 2020 @05:34PM (#25424291)
The problem with bug bounties is they are one-sided, against the researcher. The conditions of bounties typically stipulate that any attempt at negotiation can be interpreted as extortion, so it is either take it or leave it.
Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by ISL on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:26PM (#25425899)
Sounds like a third party might be able to improve the situation by providing escrow.

With their first bugs, researchers are entirely unknown quantities to the company. Stating, "I have a critical zero-day, but I won't tell you what it is until you pay me $BUCKS," clearly won't work.

A reliable escrow service, to whom the researcher can provide the exploit and the company can provide $BUCKS, offers insurance to both parties. If the exploit is not as described, the researcher loses the exploit entirely and gets no $BUCKS, but if the exploit is as described, the company cannot renege on the deal.

(Edit, addressing the direct question more-clearly: perhaps what is necessary to avoid the perception (and reality) of extortion is the emergence of accepted professional understanding for assessing the value of exploits. Without such a system, there will always be a strong incentive pushing people in the direction of blackhat work.)

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by sebmellen on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:33PM (#25425962)
AFAIK this is similar to Zerodium's business model, except they sell the zero day exploits to governments [0].

From their website [1]:

> "We pay BIG bounties, not bug bounties"

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zerodium

[1]: https://www.zerodium.com/

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by LukasReschke on Monday December 14, 2020 @05:43PM (#25424367)
How else would you phrase someone telling you "I have this bug and will exploit it if you don't pay me X amount" vs. "I think the impact is bigger because of Y"? For me, the first sounds quite clearly like extortion.

The first case would get you likely in trouble. The second case would routinely cause a further review in any decent program, and if there's any merit to it, you get a higher bounty.

Nobody is forced to participate in any bug bounty program. If people feel the reward is too low, they should not partake.

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by TheRealSteel on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:07PM (#25424634)
False dichotomy, they aren't threatening to exploit it, they simply won't give details of the exploit if they aren't paid.
Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by LukasReschke on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:26PM (#25424813)
I'd advise anyone against trying that for a system not owned by them. (e.g., someone's else website)

As soon as you do that, you venture into dangerous territory. Companies are required to investigate claims of breaches seriously. And as soon as something like this is escalated, it may be out of the Information Security team's hands to decide the next steps.

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by deeviant on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:03PM (#25424589)
> How else would you phrase someone telling you "I have this bug and will exploit it if you don't pay me X amount"

Hello Strawman!

> The second case would routinely cause a further review in any decent program

We literally just read a example of how a big corp responds to #2. Do you think it was a 1 of?

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by LukasReschke on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:13PM (#25424686)
I was part of "big corp" for the past three years and was involved in many bug bounty reports. A reasonable claim like "I think this should be higher because XYZ" gets investigated and, if justified, higher bounties issued.

This blog post seems a bit one-sided and doesn't correlate to the facts that I have heard. I wasn't there at the time being so I don't know the truth. But that blog post seems not quite 100% to be it.

What I have seen, however, in the past years, is that some people omit facts or misrepresent things to get some press. So I am quite a cynic on blog posts like this :-)

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by albntomat0 on Monday December 14, 2020 @06:55PM (#25425113)
> A reasonable claim like "I think this should be higher because XYZ" gets investigated and, if justified, higher bounties issued.

That's highly dependent on the individuals and the company doing the bounty. It's incredibly reasonable that people are suspicious of the process, when it is opaque as it is, and the disparity in negotiating power being the company and the person submitting the bug.

My personal experience is the FB bug bounty process has been generally positive, but inconsistent at times in the graded severity of issues and transparency of the decisions being made. I've clearly presented my case, and asked for additional information, but not gotten very far. My only real option in response is in how I allocate my time.

Having reports and payout amounts be permanently hidden results in stories like this being the only insight to the process.

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by HotHotLava on Tuesday December 15, 2020 @05:01AM (#25428707)
Well, it includes verbatim copies of the whole email chain, and those are looking pretty bad in itself without any of the surrounding text.

Unless you're saying they've been tampered with, or that there was additional communication in between that he omitted, it seems pretty clear that this is not a professional way to handle communications.

Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by underwater on Monday December 14, 2020 @07:57PM (#25425676)
The researcher doesn't have zero knowledge before choosing to work with/for a company. The history of payouts and the perception of the company in the community are meaningful indicators of willingness to pay.
Re:Instagram's Million Dollar Bug (2015) by albntomat0 on Monday December 14, 2020 @08:56PM (#25426127)
A large number of companies keep their bug bounty payouts and reports permanently private, which I feel is a disservice to the community.