This is something you said that I originally replied to. We don't agree on what constitutes truth, so we can't have a reasonable conversation, and we also can't fairly judge what is and isn't misinformation, because we don't agree on the basics.
This is the point I'm making. I don't believe that climate science is nearly as valid as everything that goes into making my computer work, because my computer works. I have evidence in the real world that my computer works, so all the physics that went into it must be pretty solid. I don't have evidence that climate science works, because climate scientists can't run their models 100 years into the future, see what happens, then change a variable and run it again to see what changes (with the same accuracy that you'd have if you ran the experiment in real life). Their models are fundamentally less powerful than anything that went into making my computer work by the very nature of the discipline.
Most of politics falls way closer to climate science in terms of its power as a science than it does to the physics that goes into a computer. This, fundamentally, is why "truth" and "misinformation" when talking about politics is generally pointless. There are very few discussions in current day politics that are about truths as solid as what makes a computer work. Most of it are around fields like climate science, economics, social science, which are all softer (and thus more corruptible) fields.
The reason I said we won't be able to have a reasonable and logical discussion about this is because you probably disagree with everything I just said, and you likely won't really change your mind about it. I certainly won't change my mind about it, so we're forever stuck not being able to reconcile our different views of the world in regards to the relationship between politics and science, and thus we'll never be able to reach 'ground truth' from which we could then work up towards stopping the spread of misinformation. A general notion of truth itself has to be agreed upon before we can have reasonable and logical discussions about this subject, but that likely won't happen.
- Facts and truth how we agree on them and how and why they influence policy decisions.
- Politics: what is the best way to convince (or unconvinced) people of a particular policy and progress a particular agenda (usually party or individual based).
I think anytime you find yourself stating “I’ll never change my view” I’d recommend a moment of pause.
Putting climate change to one side. Flat earth, 5G causing coronavirus, Bill gates trying to mind control your kids are all easily proved factually incorrect. Facebook could easily limit the spread of the this stuff. Sure we can save the more controversial things for later when more than 94% consensus is reached (in the instance of climate change)
Similarly, at the time masks widely agreed upon to be ineffective. Anyone seen with a mask outside was looked at weirdly, anyone buying masks or telling people to buy masks was called a conspiracy theorist. Reasonable people at the time were lied to by their own government into believing that masks weren't important, because the government didn't want to compete with their own population since they were running short on supply. https://twitter.com/Surgeon_General/status/12337257852839321...
The point is, out of your reasonable examples of things that are obviously false, I can already take issue with one of them because it depends on when you would apply the censorship. If it's February and you're applying censorship to "5G causes Coronavirus", you're also probably applying it to "buy N95 masks", and you're also probably applying it to "don't let Chinese people into our airports, avoid Chinese people altogether" because it's racist, even though that's the correct thing that should have been done, instead of this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNMdg4morQs.
My point is, facts and truth are fluid, especially in new situations that we don't know anything about. And especially when politics are involved. By June everyone understood that lockdowns and social distancing were good and necessary, except that the entirety of media, academia, and elite society in general decided to give up on this for the George Floyd protests. If truth can bend this easily once it's convenient, why should I take it seriously at all?
So I reaffirm my point that I will absolutely not change my mind on this, and without giving it any pause. Truth doesn't exist when we're talking about politics, and trying to pretend that it does is naive. You're naive for believing that it exists. It's all about power and what's convenient for people in power (the media, academia and elite society), it's absolutely not about truth, and this year of all years should have woken you up to this fact.
The problems you speak of are US problems. Good luck on the way down, there is a long way to fall for you guys.
Some fun points for you to not change your mind on:
- China mandated masks in January (as did Taiwan). No conspiracy or confusion, that was a US thing...
- Radio waves causing a virus... there is zero evidence of that ever happening. So why would anyone believe it now... or ever
- actually none of the conspiracy theories were ever correct. Not one of them. Nor were they plausible to anyone outside of the lower educated half of the US.
It’s funny you turned out to be an example of why these things need to be fixed. Read some world news. Go look at New Zealand and Australia, or Taiwan or Korea if you want to see what countries that follow facts and truth rather than ... whatever fluid-truth mess you are trying to articulate.
Yes, and the US didn't for a long time because of no supplies. Chinese citizens bought out all masks in January and early February and shipped them to China, and while we were saying that this was going on and that the government should focus on not letting that happen, the media, academia and elite society called everyone racists for suggesting that and that masks weren't important.
>Radio waves causing a virus... there is zero evidence of that ever happening. So why would anyone believe it now... or ever
The theory was that it suppresses your immune system, not that it literally causes the virus to appear in your body out of thin air. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2020-00249...
>actually none of the conspiracy theories were ever correct. Not one of them. Nor were they plausible to anyone outside of the lower educated half of the US.
Factually false. But why would I bother explaining.
>It’s funny you turned out to be an example of why these things need to be fixed.
It's as I said previously, we won't be able to have a reasonable and logical discussion. I'm glad you finally agree with me. I will also say this: I will not have my views "fixed". The more you try to impose censorship, the more people will speak out against it. You are, willingly or unwillingly, knowingly or unknowingly, by the very fact that you believe science can be used to accurately shape policy, part of an elite class of individuals in the world that is scared the "lower educated half" is coming for you, and they are, because your class is corrupt beyond belief and their time is coming.
Honestly, please read some Taiwanese news... why didn’t they have a mask shortage? Or HK or Singapore? You quote complete nonsense like it’s fact.
5G suppresses the immune system... so Wouldn’t the outbreak have been bigger in Shanghai and Guangzhou that have the largest 5G installation and population in the world... but no, instead they had one of the smallest outbreaks per capita. I’m happy to keep feeding you knowledge for the all the hair brain ideas you present.
Please do explain the factual nature of the conspiracy theories... your answer implies you don’t actually have an explanation.
You are right, we won’t agree, because you haven’t got a point. What you first replied to and where you’re at now are unrelated positions.
This is a classic “bring them to your level and beat them with experience” situation. You’ve moved the goal posts to climate change now. I’m not taking up that fight.
You’ve basically just said: reason and logic have been corrupted, so we can’t agree in mere reason and logic. You’ll find your position doesn’t take you anywhere nice. But I appreciate the discussion we’ve had up to this point.