When you're a small, homogeneous population, you can make systems like that work. Things break down, however, for larger, more heterogeneous populations.

Business leaders hate govt incompetence and waste much more than redistribution per se, as demonstrated by their relatively generous contributions to charity.

A welfare-state necessarily involves govt running a major part of it, horribly inefficiently.

I've said this before here on HN, but Naval Ravikant (of AngelList) nailed the problem with government pay subsidies and universal basic income on a podcast with Joe Rogan.

"The moment you start having a direct transfer mechanism like that in democracy, you're basically doing away with capitalism which is the engine of economic growth. You're also forcing the entrepreneur out, or telling them not to come here."

"People who are down on their luck, they're not looking for handouts. It's not just about money, it's also about status and meaning. The moment I start giving money to you, I've lowered your status and made you a second class citizen.”

I'm originally from Finland. Now that I've been living in America for a while, I can compare both.

The modest success I've had in life is largely thanks to Finland's safety net and accessible opportunities. I received free college education in a specialist field (film post-production).

When I started a little software startup in said field, the Finnish government gave me small grants and loans to help me along. I didn't have to worry about healthcare during those "ramen profitable" years. The company wasn't a big success by any measure, but it helped me build a network.

Thanks to so-called socialism, I didn't have student debt and didn't need rich relatives to go into business on my own. But that's not a story that fits the American idea of entrepreneurship, I guess.

Although my current job at $BIGTECH pays well, the expenses are also calibrated very differently. Preschool for my kid costs close to $3k/month, which is more than 10x what anyone pays in Finland. The quality of the education is similar. I plan to move back to Finland when the kids are a bit older. It's just a more stable place to raise a family.

There are many things to admire about American capitalism. When I was growing up in the ‘80s, it held an almost mythical appeal. But reinvention is also part of the American myth, and it might be time for another round of that.

I was specifically referring to people less fortunate, usually given far less opportunities, often due to their race, religion or something similar.

And if you don’t believe that’s true, then that is nonsense.

I think your quotes are a bit strawmanning: they are good responses to someone is advocating for no private property. There's a large spectrum in the middle that includes single payer insurance and free college that are still very far away from "there's no incentive for anyone to make money anymore!"