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Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by firloop on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:23AM (#25359414)
> Yesterday was the safe harbor deadline for the U.S. Presidential election and enough states have certified their election results to determine a President-elect. Given that, we will start removing any piece of content uploaded today (or anytime after) that misleads people by alleging that widespread fraud or errors changed the outcome of the 2020 U.S. Presidential election...

This is likely going to make a lot of conservatives in the US unhappy, since a number of elected officials in Congress (!) are openly questioning the election results. Also seems a lot more severe than Twitter’s approach, where Twitter is labeling “disputed claims” rather than taking them down.

I don’t believe that the 2020 US presidential election was rigged, but I think it’s heavy-handed to take these videos down outright. After the 2016 election, many people went wild with Russian conspiracy theories that proved to mostly be bogus, and that content never got this level of platform scrutiny or censorship.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by rubyist5eva on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:28AM (#25359482)
The safe harbour deadline is mostly procedural anyway. Justice Ginsburg even said something along the lines that the only real date that matters is when Congress actually certifies the electoral college votes - in January.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by elicash on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @02:12PM (#25362974)
She said that... in a MINORITY opinion. The majority of justices disagreed and gave it much weight.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by smt88 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:27AM (#25359462)
As far as I know, no senator is seriously contesting the results. The House always has at least a few crackpots in it, now including a Q believer.

I'm not sure why YouTube should cater to conspiracy theorists just because they'll get upset that their conspiracies are not blasted from YouTube's megaphone. YT is within its rights, and there are thousands of other video sharing services (including Mega, which is totally unregulated) for them to share their content on. They can and do self-host as well.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by firloop on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:39AM (#25359649)
Ted Cruz is at least one Senator fighting the election results: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/529146-cruz-offers-to-ar...
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by dfxm12 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @11:21AM (#25360244)
After a cursory search, it looks like you can add Lindsay Graham [0] as a Republican senator questioning election results, as well as Mitch McConnell [1] and Perdue and Loeffler [2].

0 - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/...

1 - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-electio...

2 - https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/georgia-s-republican-s...

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by ojbyrne on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:46AM (#25359756)
The Supreme court declined to hear that case yesterday. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/529334-supreme-...
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by slumdev on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:57AM (#25359935)
That is false.

The Supreme Court denied a request for emergency injunctive relief. They did not deny certiorari.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jcranmer on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:17PM (#25361737)
That is false. The request for emergency injunctive relief was also the request for certiorari. In denying the relief, they closed out the docket and denied certiorari in the process.

And yes, I did look through SCOTUS's docket to find any other docketed case referring to Kelly v PA.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by citilife on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:39PM (#25362226)
Kelly was discussing that this morning on the radio still had it pending at SCOTUS. They believe it may be merged with the Texas case.

So, unless I'm missing something, the former comment appeared correct.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jcranmer on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:52PM (#25362539)
This is the link to the actual docket of the case:

https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/do...

There's no indication in the docket that anything about the case is still live.

If you read the original brief, this is what it requests:

> Petitioners also ask the Court to consider this Application as a petition for certiorari, grant certiorari on the questions presented, treat the Application papers as merits briefing, and issue a merits decision as soon as practicable.

In denying the application, it is by proxy denying the request for certiorari, although I believe it would be theoretically possible to actually reapply for certiorari. (Looking through SCOTUS's rules, it does seem that Rule 22.4 suggests that this is the case)

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by quotemstr on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:57AM (#25359945)
No, that's a different case. The case Cruz has promised to assist is one in which the state of Texas (yes, the whole thing) is suing other states over alleged election irregularities. When one state sues another, the case goes directly to the supreme court.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by djsumdog on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:05PM (#25361536)
And the Texas case is very sound. It gets directly into specific cases and doesn't go down any of the silly Q/Conspiracy routes. Viva does a great analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-tb11okydc

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jeffbee on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:18PM (#25361747)
If you find this convincing I weep for the people who have to interact with you on the daily. The Texas suit is completely bananas and relies on ten pages of complete gibberish from a 75-year-old energy economist consultant. Please read the appendix of the suit. If you know anything about statistics, you'll find it to be total nonsense.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nl on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @11:35PM (#25369760)
Do you have a link? This is the filing but doesn't seem to have the appendix: https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/sites/default/files/ima...
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jeffbee on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @11:39PM (#25369783)
It's at https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketPDF/22/22O155/163048/2020...

Look for "Declaration of Charles J. Cicchetti"

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nl on Thursday December 10, 2020 @12:12AM (#25370005)
Oh wow. Too quote:

The probability of former Vice President Biden winning the popular vote in the four Defendant States—Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin—independently given President Trump’s early lead in those States as of 3 a.m.on November 4, 2020,is less than one in a quadrillion, or 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000.For former Vice President Biden to win these four States collectively, the odds of that event happening decrease to less than one in a quadrillion to the fourth power (i.e., 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,0004).

This - of course - is only true assuming votes are evenly distributed though out each state, and urban centers vote the same as country areas. He doesn't even mention that in his affidavit.

And he tries to use Z-scores to claim that it's impossible this mean people voted differently compared to 2016! That's ridiculous and - very notably - he fails to to do the same for eg Trump vs Romney or Obama vs Clinton.

No wonder trust in science is decreasing with people asking us to take this crap seriously.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jcranmer on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:18PM (#25361758)
I'll link to what I said last night about the case: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25354086

There are 6 reasons for SCOTUS to dismiss it before it even considers the merits. Anyone who thinks the case has a chance does not understand SCOTUS.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by matwood on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:49PM (#25362464)
Thank you for this. I was about to link to a Twitter thread laying out the same reasoning.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by rat87 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:10PM (#25361616)
The Texas case is an insane attack on democracy that isn't going anywhere

But just because it isn't doesn't excuse the Republicans that are attacking our democracy just to soothe an old narcissists ego

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by User23 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:22PM (#25361829)
Texas v. is a great case to put in front of a bunch of originalists. You should definitely brace yourself for a ruling that state courts illegally changed election rules because the constitution solely grants that power to the legislatures of the states.

Edit: if they do the states in question will probably call special legislative sessions to repair the defect.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jcranmer on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:32PM (#25362044)
You should prepare yourself for a ruling that a state cannot challenge another state's laws before SCOTUS.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by disgrunt on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @09:38PM (#25368954)
Not sure how you can be so confident, considering how many times the SCOTUS has previously decided interstate disputes? [0]

[0]: https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-3/29-suits-be...

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jcranmer on Thursday December 10, 2020 @12:27AM (#25370117)
Because the interstate disputes SCOTUS has heard and decided are not about states challenging other states' interpretations of their own laws, but almost entirely about who actually has various water rights? Because the suit alleged here is almost exactly the kind of interstate dispute that SCOTUS has rejected to hear as recently as 2016 (Nebraska v Colorado)?
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by User23 on Thursday December 10, 2020 @09:25AM (#25373967)
I'm not a lawyer, but thankfully the constitution is actually a pretty easy read from the originalist perspective that now has significant influence on the court and in this case I don't need to worry about case law and so on, so I'm comfortable speculating a bit.

Here's the relevant text: "Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector."

This means that the legislatures of the state have total and exclusive power over the manner in which their electors are chosen. Plainly read, no other body, including that state's judiciary or executive, has the power to direct how electors are chosen. This power is so broad the state could select electors by lottery, or even a poll on hackernews and it wouldn't be subject to any oversight other than a constitutional amendment.

So, you can see that this isn't about a state following its own laws, it's about a state following the constitution. Since the constitution is a pact between the fifty sovereign states, like any other binding pact when another party doesn't follow the rules of the pact they can be sued in the appropriate venue which is the Supreme Court of the United States, or otherwise acted against. Let us hope it doesn't come to the otherwise option anytime soon, because the last time was a real mess.

I think the best, if not necessarily the most likely outcome, is that the court orders the lawbreaking states to fix things, which is as simple as calling a special legislative section and passing a resolution selecting a slate of electors. Presumably states with Democratic legislatures will pick Biden and those with Republican legislatures will pick Trump, but no matter what it will be up to the democratically elected legislatures of the state in question, which in a sane world would be acceptable to both sides.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nl on Saturday December 12, 2020 @09:57PM (#25403925)
But... There were no lawbreaking states!

And your proposed remedy involving throwing away everyone's votes is completely outrageous (as noted by the judge when proposed by the Trump team in MI or PA)

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nl on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @11:43PM (#25369811)
It's unclear if you realise, but this isn't the same thing at all.

SCOTUS settles interstate disputes all the time. But one of the things they look at before they hear a dispute is if the dispute can be settled in a lower court.

In this case, Texas is complaining about the way otehr states conduct their affairs. The normal course to do this would be via the states courts (that is literally what they exist for).

It's very unclear why SCOTUS would hear this instead of directing Texas to file in the state courts.

(There's also the question of standing, but that's another hurdle Texas would have to overcome)

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by disgrunt on Thursday December 10, 2020 @09:59AM (#25374308)
I'm not a lawyer, but I would argue that other parties have already attempted to dispute the unconstitutional election changes in those state courts, including their supreme courts, and they've been unanimously dismissed for jurisdictional or procedural reasons. For example, I believe the application of laches in Pennsylvania to be improper because Republicans had sought a stay of the election changes prior to the election. Thus far, it appears the Pennsylvania courts refuse to adjudicate the constitutionality of these election changes.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nl on Saturday December 12, 2020 @03:50AM (#25396840)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-12-12/supreme-court-rejects...

They rejected it.

Once again it was a fantasy disconnected to facts.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nl on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @11:33PM (#25369739)
The Texas case isn't sound at all.

UTexas Law Professor says about it: "It looks like we have a new leader in the “craziest lawsuit filed to purportedly challenge the election” category" and "o chalk this up as mostly a stunt — a dangerous, offensive, and wasteful one, but a stunt nonetheless."[1]

[1] https://twitter.com/steve_vladeck/status/1336312379408322560

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by disgrunt on Thursday December 10, 2020 @10:10AM (#25374445)
So a liberal professor in Austin, who is also a CNn analyst, thinks it's a "crazy stunt" with no actual law analysis? [0] And his peers are on the Biden transition team? [1]

Well, I'm convinced.

[0]: https://law.utexas.edu/faculty/stephen-i-vladeck [1]: https://www.kvue.com/article/news/education/university-of-te...

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by macspoofing on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @11:32AM (#25360402)
Yeah.. In court. Trump campaign and the party has a right to challenge results in court (if they don't have standing the lawsuit will be thrown out immediately). That's working within the system.

Are you arguing that candidates and parties should not be allowed to challenge various aspects of elections in a court of law? You think that had Trump been barred from filing lawsuits, that that would improve trust in the election system?

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by rat87 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:14PM (#25361692)
Valid lawsuits

Most of the lawsuits Trumps lawyers and other supporters have produced are batshit and people are trying to get the lawyers sanctioned for frivolous lawsuits. These suits are failing in court, the only thing they're good for is as a justification for conspiracy theories

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by bamboozled on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:41AM (#25359685)
I don’t understand why you’re downvoted for this either.

YouTube isn’t a public utility and they don’t have to publish things they don’t like.

Disclaimer: I don’t really like YouTube and I think it would indeed be better if the internet was less centralised for this very reason.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by macspoofing on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @11:52AM (#25360643)
>YouTube isn’t a public utility and they don’t have to publish things they don’t like.

They are protected under safe harbor provisions. The question arises, once they start taking direct editorial control over content, should they be?

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jeffbee on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:19PM (#25361771)
The entire point of the safe harbor, the explicit purpose of section 230 of the CDA, is that a site exercises editorial control and moderation and still enjoys the safe harbor.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by gitweb on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @12:54PM (#25361403)
Should a website dedicated to supporting women who have been sexually abused, be allowed to censor content telling them they deserved it?
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by macspoofing on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:20PM (#25361791)
Are you trying to make the point that YouTube is a special interest site and not a platform? Or are you trying to make the point that YouTube should have its cake and eat it too by being protected as a platform, and at the same time play the role of a curator and publisher?
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nobody9999 on Thursday December 10, 2020 @03:49AM (#25371372)
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nobody9999 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:42PM (#25362296)
>are you trying to make the point that YouTube should have its cake and eat it too by being protected as a platform, and at the same time play the role of a curator and publisher?

I could waste everyone's time and explain why that's flat wrong. Instead, I'll refer you here[0] which will explain, in detail, why you're wrong about Section 230.

[0] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20200531/23325444617/hello...

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by gitweb on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @06:51PM (#25367301)
I'm likely banned from HN now from all the downvotes I received for the perfectly legit response, yet some people appear to not like facts so much that they just downvote to censor (which HN does).
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by jonathanstrange on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:28AM (#25359485)
It would be a catastrophe if the current US administration indeed was unable to ensure free and fair elections in their country - for the first time in US history, unless previous elections such as the 2016 election were fraudulent, too!
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by gitweb on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @12:51PM (#25361370)
Right... if this election was fraudulent, then might as well cancel the 2016 elections as well. They also had 4 years to help improve election security, which conservatives waited until after they lost to cry fraud.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by Moway on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:43AM (#25359710)
Anyone who hasn't seen the video of the 2016 post-Trump-election meeting at Google should watch it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRf9UxsM-NE

It should give you an idea about what kind of ideological bias you can expect from this company.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by kgwxd on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:29AM (#25359499)
Openly questioning in bad faith. They've gotten way more attention for it than they ever should have, time to move on.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by bamboozled on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:33AM (#25359561)
YouTube is run by a private company, they can do what they like with the content they own.

If they don’t want to show the content, tough luck.

Don’t like the content? Don’t watch it.

Don’t agree with their ethics ? Don’t use their product.

It’s simple.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by erichocean on Thursday December 10, 2020 @03:36AM (#25371283)
> YouTube is run by a private company

Sigh. YouTube is run by a public company, has been for many years.

Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by mmastrac on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @10:34AM (#25359569)
Freedom for me, but not for thee.
Re:YouTube to remove content that alleges widespread electio... by nobody9999 on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @01:44PM (#25362354)
> Freedom for me, but not for thee.

You mean that you wish to require others to say or host the things that you want, and if they don't they should be forced to do so?

That's freedom for you but not for others, not the other way around.