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Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by PragmaticPulp on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:44PM (#25350332)
> I've heard Fuchsia referred to as a "principal engineer retention project" at Google.

No rational company is going to create useless projects just to retain expensive engineers. What's the point in retaining engineers if you're just going to pay them to work on something without expected ROI?

Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by com2kid on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @05:09PM (#25352069)
> No rational company is going to create useless projects just to retain expensive engineers. What's the point in retaining engineers if you're just going to pay them to work on something without expected ROI?

(Short) story time!

Windows on ARM was a solo pet project of a high level engineer at Microsoft!

There are some engineers who are so valuable that letting them spend non-trivial amounts of time on whatever they want is a very good use of company resources.

Sometimes just not letting the competition have them is valuable!

I've worked with a few 10x-20x engineers, if someone is that productive, they can spend 2 years off on another non-ROI project, come back, and spend 2 years on a project with ROI, and the company still comes out ahead.

Most company's aren't smart enough to figure this out, then again determining who these people are is also a problem. That latter part is funny (ironic?), because on the ground floor everyone who encounters a world class engineer is pretty darn sure of it.

Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by gman83 on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @05:52PM (#25352638)
I don't think it's fair to call Windows on ARM an "engineer retention project". They actually released Windows RT and tried very hard to make it work. They still have it going with the Surface Pro X, and they just announced an emulation layer to get x64 applications working on ARM, which if it works well would solve RT's biggest problem, a lack of legacy applications: https://www.neowin.net/news/it039s-official-x64-emulation-is...
Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by anp on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @08:18PM (#25354111)
My possibly incorrect read of GP is that it started as effectively a retention project until someone realized they really wanted it.
Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by com2kid on Wednesday December 09, 2020 @02:35PM (#25363363)
That is correct. It was a one man show for a long time (I don't think it was his only job, just a side project), then when tablets happened a full team was ramped up behind it.
Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by munificent on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @11:43PM (#25355449)
> What's the point in retaining engineers if you're just going to pay them to work on something without expected ROI?

I'm not claiming that Google or other companies often do this, but just to play Devil's advocate, here are reasons why they might:

* Prevents them from going to the competition.

* Uses their prestige to attract or retain other developers.

* Keeps them "on retainer" in case a hard problem that needs their rare skills appears in the future.

When I worked at EA, we had a star engineer that spent, like, 75% of his time totally dicking around on whatever he felt like. But when say, it was a month away from FIFA's ship date and they couldn't get the game to run faster than 5 FPS, they would call him in. He would work some magic, the game would ship on time and with adequate perf, and he'd return to goofing off. Well worth EA's money to keep him on salary.

Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by cmrdporcupine on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @07:34PM (#25353698)
The rationale behind decisions in a BigCorp with very large Other Revenue Sources is entirely different from that of a small company that could be crushed by market forces on a moments notice.

As others have pointed out, the ROI can be something entirely different than $$ in the accounting ledger.

9 years into my BigCorp career and I still find it flabbergasting.

Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by incrudible on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:55PM (#25350476)
The ROI is keeping your competition from the bottom starved for engineers.
Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by dbbk on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:50PM (#25350410)
I wouldn't say it's a useless project per se. But the usefulness of it is certainly yet to be determined.
Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by hobs on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:55PM (#25350477)
Punishing your competitors and maybe making money.
Re:Expanding Fuchsia's open source model by ponker on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @02:45PM (#25350348)
So they are available when you have a project to ramp up quickly, and so they don’t work at a competitor.