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Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by dnautics on Monday December 07, 2020 @12:13AM (#25329510)
Perhaps this is self-serving of me, since I want to build a product like this, but:

I think honestly the problem is that these systems are not consumer-oriented products. I think there is a real desire by people to not have to live as rentiers in the digital marketplace, but there are not really products that cater to that.

IMO There's a place for something that merges a NAS, with some sort of overlay over current IP that is encrypted and fully peer-to-peer. But NASes are still too hard for many consumers to set up, and most techniques to overlay over IP are likewise too difficult, and basically impossible to correctly multi-tenant (you can't share your network space with your aunt and your coworker without sharing with both). Unlike IPFS, or bittorrent, availability is important, but not critical, and you don't need to promiscuously replicate your information across the entire world, encrypted or otherwise.

I think there's a market for something that is like "plug in to your local network, do minimal configuration, you can set up shared folders a la dropbox, and you can access it over the net". You can sync credentials with a username and a one-time PIN. You should be able to easily set up rules for sharing with friends, with smart defaults.

I think what's interesting from a consumer perspective is that there are things you can do on such a platform that many (not all) people would think twice about letting facebook do, like tag and organize photos of your young kid and share them with relatives/friends who have a PIN.

I also think that the time horizon for this is relatively short (5-years?) soon people will be so desensitized to advertisements/being a digital rentier that the opportunity will have aged out. 20-somethings don't know what a NAS is.

I haven't started on this yet, but if anyone is interested, my info's here.

Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by rmrfstar on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:53AM (#25329945)
If I was going to do this in a weekend, I would avoid the NAS device. "The ecosystem is moving", availability, etc.

Build a simple system around "content groups", something that people will put in the same mental category as "group chats". Each "content group" has a LUKS encrypted filesystem somewhere in the cloud. Keys are exchanged using Megolm and Matrix rooms. The filesystems are mounted via sshfs and decrypted locally. The "pin" is replaced by membership in a Matrix room.

The cloud never sees the LUKS key, and the tagging is done locally. The cloud back-end can be changed using the Matrix control channel, so you're not locked in to one vendor.

I really don't think people will buy in though. At this point, no one cares if their whole life story is recorded by FAAMG.

Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by buildanduse on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:07AM (#25331373)
I think more and more people are caring if their life story is recorded, but the majority are not there yet. And, for the folks who care, there are no viable places to turn. It is a driving force behind Diode (diode.io) - most of our tech is open source and we are looking for collaborators who want to grow local and connect global.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by Maakuth on Monday December 07, 2020 @04:44AM (#25330679)
I mostly like your idea, but filesystems are probably the wrong abstraction for this - concurrency when writes are ongoing is difficult and corruption will likely result. How about something like S3, overlaid with rclone's encryption: https://rclone.org/crypt? The rest of the system could work like you described, exchanging keys via Matrix.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by rmrfstar on Monday December 07, 2020 @05:40AM (#25330929)
Wow, rclone is very cool! Works with 50 different storage providers.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by buildanduse on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:04AM (#25331360)
Hey dnautics - we just launched the alpha of dDrive - a consumer level storage system implemented on top of the Diode Network - https://support.diode.io/article/irhluyq82j. No promiscuous replication, all peer-based, so availability is solid. Many similar applications are easily enabled with Diode tech.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by 1vuio0pswjnm7 on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:04PM (#25339549)
One the qualities of what you are describing is that the overlay networks do not have to be large. Almost every "LAN over IP" project you will find on the internet tries to be able to scale to infinity, so most of them are not appropriate for what you describe. However there is at least one I know of that does not try to scale like that and it works well. It is easy to segregate "LANs" (family, friends, colleagues). Each one can have its own TAP interface.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by foxhop on Monday December 07, 2020 @08:34AM (#25331970)
I did some analysis of the hardware requirements of replacing my YouTube account with files hosted at home. https://russell.ballestrini.net/dreaming-of-unlimited-home-c...

I'm also interested, details on my contact page. I have a lab and hardware and a decent internet connection.

Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by Nbox9 on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:25AM (#25329832)
Have you looked at Western Digital’s My Cloud? It’s more or less what you described.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by buildanduse on Monday December 07, 2020 @07:10AM (#25331388)
For storage, My Cloud and other centralized systems (e.g. QNAP and Synology offerings) give some usability, but they are limited to storage and still use a central server. We are trying to get Diode tech widely adopted - it is a network that enables N to N private, fully trustless, tunnels. We implemented dDrive (https://support.diode.io/article/irhluyq82j) over it (in Alpha) that can map any storage (laptop, server, NAS, etc...) so that peers can privately access, or so that you can easily share files without having to use centralized storage / email. Telegram group at https://t.me/diode_chain.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by ajvs on Monday December 07, 2020 @09:31AM (#25332416)
What's the pros/cons vs Syncthing?
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by buildanduse on Tuesday December 08, 2020 @04:40AM (#25343483)
Great question - probably three differences: 1) Syncthing is storage only - Diode has dDrive for storage, but also supports N other use cases as a true web3 backbone candidate (e.g. currently deployed: video streaming, VPN, decentralized web hosting, remote SSH, etc...) 2) Syncthing uses community relays/nodes without any incentive structure - it limits the scale of the network. Diode implements a relay incentive in proportion to the traffic handled (which is somewhat predicated on the QoS the relay is able to provide) 3) Syncthing is a closed system (an impact of #1), so it can't do things like link sharing, web viewers, etc... whereas Diode is able to provide all those things fully decentralized

There are certainly also specific UX/functionality differences on how the apps are implemented, but those are probably the macro considerations.

Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by dnautics on Monday December 07, 2020 @01:33AM (#25329874)
thanks! This looks pretty cool, I'll test it out for competition analysis. There's features i'd want (like pluggable applications) but it looks nice.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by nitrogen on Monday December 07, 2020 @03:27AM (#25330333)
Pogoplug used to be something like a personal cloud, but it looks like it's now an online backup service. There's also OwnCloud. I haven't tried either.
Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by mro_name on Monday December 07, 2020 @02:57AM (#25330196)
indeed!

My take on self-hosted services (not infrasructure, though) is layperson-friendlyness. See https://mro.name/ShaarliGo#install--update or the 5min talk I did a while ago: https://txt.mro.name/34c3 (that page isn't layperson-friendly, but you'll make it)

anyone?

Re:Winning back the Internet by building our own by l33tman on Monday December 07, 2020 @05:36AM (#25330913)
Isn't this built into all modern Wifi routers? Asus has had this for 10 years or so, and they also had their share of security issues that comes with the territory :/