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Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @02:26PM (#25317501)
This is pretty bad journalism and just kind of meant to stoke the fire of controversy. The subpoena will most likely be dropped (as ICE would with almost certainty lose in court[1]).

The Yale Law Journal article cited does argue that even though it's worrysome that there's no federal reporter's privilege, there's plenty of precedent, including constitutional (state-level), statutory as well as common-law protections that can be invoked to throw out this kind of lawsuit.

[1] https://www.yalelawjournal.org/article/the-de-facto-reporter...

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by saagarjha on Saturday December 05, 2020 @02:58PM (#25317762)
ICE trying to subpoena things that they know wouldn’t hold up in court seems fairly worthy of coverage, if you’d ask me.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:23PM (#25317948)
Except that it literally happens all the time, mostly by local agencies. But this happens to be news because it's ICE, and everyone hates ICE. It's not that hard to see the click-bait selective reporting.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by 8note on Saturday December 05, 2020 @05:19PM (#25318947)
That still sounds worth the coverage. Why are these agencies wasting tax payer money on these? They clearly have too much budget
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by oliwarner on Sunday December 06, 2020 @04:22AM (#25322263)
I suspect subpoenaing information is far cheaper than seeking warrants to perform physical investigation, even before you consider the investigation.

Defending the subpoena is only expensive if they defend it.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by aqme28 on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:27PM (#25317989)
"this happens to be news because it's ICE"

Exactly. I don't see why that justifies the dismissiveness.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:46PM (#25318167)
> I don't see why that justifies the dismissiveness.

Because it's click-bait selective reporting that stokes outrage. (Case in point: Just take a look at how I'm getting spam downvoted after outlining my position fairly straightforwardly.)

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by peterbonney on Saturday December 05, 2020 @04:10PM (#25318394)
You’re getting downvoted because your position is absurd on its face. Just because subpoenas are likely to be dismissed does not make them unworthy of reporting, and arguably quite the opposite - particularly when it is a major federal agency doing the subpoenaing rather than some small town sheriff.

A subpoena is expensive and onerous to fight. Yes, Buzzfeed has the resources to do so. Does your local paper? To dismiss the power and newsworthiness of a subpoena from a major federal agency with all of the financial and human resources (funded by you the taxpayer!) that such position implies is cynical beyond belief. To then further dismiss the criticism of that view as “spam” is revealing.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @04:21PM (#25318491)
Kind of jarring to read this kind of misinformation here on HN. This is not true. Even as a non-lawyer, I know that you can literally just ignore it and go to the contempt hearing (where the judge will most likely side with the news outlet).
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by mindslight on Saturday December 05, 2020 @05:57PM (#25319249)
Yeah that's exactly what attorneys say about legal requests all the time. "Oh just ignore it, no need to prepare, the judge will see it your way". Then they write you a check to thank you for saving them from boredom. </sarcasm>

Have you ever retained an attorney for any legal issue whatsoever? From my experience, your comment is the grave misinformation.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by eganist on Saturday December 05, 2020 @07:12PM (#25319693)
> Even as a non-lawyer, I know that you can literally just ignore it and go to the contempt hearing (where the judge will most likely side with the news outlet).

> Even as a non-lawyer

> non-lawyer

Hey @dvt, this is a pretty bad look. I'm not an attorney; I've learned well enough through absurd-on-face comments of my own not to give legal advice when I'm out of my depth... or at all.

This is the position you're in.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @08:13PM (#25320015)
> not to give legal advice when I'm out of my depth

Maybe you're confused, I'm not giving any legal advice. First of all, there's no one to give legal advice to; but second of all, it's purely a procedural claim. It's like saying "if you don't pay your traffic ticket, your driver's license might get suspended." Similarly, if you ignore a subpoena, you'll go to a contempt hearing where you'll make your case to a judge.

How that constitutes "legal advice" is beyond me, it's simply a brute fact.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by peterbonney on Saturday December 05, 2020 @04:34PM (#25318612)
And many times have you been subpoenaed, exactly?
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by klyrs on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:00PM (#25317774)
Nope. When the freedom of press is under attack by the government, it is news. Every single time.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by lopmotr on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:04PM (#25317803)
I think the problem is that most of the content is general subjective anti-Trump ranting, and not specific to this incident.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by fastball on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:09PM (#25317830)
Is revealing sources really a violation of "freedom of press"?

What exactly is freedom of the press?

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by justinclift on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:22PM (#25317934)
> Is revealing sources really a violation of "freedom of press"?

Well, when a confidential source has their identity revealed it's likely to go pretty badly for them. eg: many corporate and gov whistleblowers being fired + pursued extra-legally, Chelsea Manning thrown in prison, and so on.

So, (most) media organisations seem to resist doing the revealing.

Whether or not that falls strictly under the "freedom of the press" term or not though, is not all that relevant.

The concept of "don't reveal sources" is pretty basic, regardless of the term people use to describe it. ;)

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dafoex on Monday December 07, 2020 @05:24AM (#25330861)
So no hope of Harvard notation from the Beeb, then?
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by jachee on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:25PM (#25317972)
It's the ability to publish criticism and facts about the government without facing harm from doing so.

Revealing sources violates the trust those sources depend on to ensure the truth gets reported, and risks harm to those sources.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by syshum on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:12PM (#25317855)
This should not be a "press" issue, if they issued it to some random citizen it should face the same scrutiny

personally I am tried of the "press" believing they have or should be treated different than anyone else. It should not matter if it was the NYTimes, Buzzfeed, Fox, or JoeBlow Citzen Blog...

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by sneak on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:14PM (#25317879)
I don't think anything that the press is asserting as their freedom in any way implies that anyone who wants to publish and enjoy those same freedoms shouldn't have them.

You're press, and I'm press too.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by eganist on Saturday December 05, 2020 @02:51PM (#25317701)
> This is pretty bad journalism and just kind of meant to stoke the fire of controversy.

Imagine not reporting on the fact that a federal institution is trying to test their limits.

Just because something is likely to be thrown out doesn't mean an agency pushing limits shouldn't be reported. The entire point of the press is to bring awareness to situations like this.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:28PM (#25317995)
> Imagine not reporting on the fact that a federal institution is trying to test their limits.

Subpoenaing sources is standard operating procedure for all law enforcement agencies (from the FBI, to ICE, to your local PD). As mentioned in a different post, it's a low-risk, high-reward legal strategy, even though it won't work 99.9% of the time.

It's making a mountain out of a molehill.

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by wonnage on Saturday December 05, 2020 @04:01PM (#25318305)
Found the ICE lawyer!
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dafoex on Monday December 07, 2020 @05:26AM (#25330870)
Found the person that thinks this is Reddit.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by cortesoft on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:10PM (#25317839)
The problem isn’t that they will be forced to comply with the subpoena, but that they tried to issue one at all.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:24PM (#25317964)
This is standard operating procedure and happens all the time, especially at the local level. 99.9% the subpoenas fall through, but it's a low-risk, high-reward legal strategy.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:38PM (#25318091)
Then that is a bug that needs to be fixed.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by dvt on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:44PM (#25318151)
Not really, because there might be some cases where compelling a journalist to reveal their sources is the right thing to do. Coming up with examples is trivial: child abuse, war crimes, etc. Of course, this should be extremely rare (which it already is). The freedom of the press, much like the freedom of speech (and religion, for that matter), is not -- Constitutionally speaking -- absolute.
Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by 8note on Saturday December 05, 2020 @05:16PM (#25318931)
I'm not clear how those require revealing sources?

If a source reports a war crime, people should be going after the war criminal, not the person that called them out

Re:ICE Is Trying to Force BuzzFeed News to Divulge Its Sources by yjftsjthsd-h on Saturday December 05, 2020 @03:57PM (#25318268)
No, the bug is a government agency knowingly trying to work around legal process.