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Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by kungito on Friday December 04, 2020 @07:21AM (#25301490)
Why can't the books be able to teach about "how" as well? I'm from a mediocre country where I went to the best CS college and 99% of the things I learned there was from powerpoint presentations, pdf scripts or books full of math exercises. I still got into FAMANG as my first full time job and so did many other people from there. I just never saw the value in our professors. They mostly repeated stuff from text books, had 10 year old lab assignments and similar exams for 20 years. And I don't think it's that bad. It teaches you enough of the basics for average programming job or as basis for you to expand into what's more interesting to you specifically. The only thing missing was cool projects like having your college develop GHC or stuff like that.

Point being, I think college professors overestimate their impact a bit when regarding bachelors/masters topics. All that is too basic to really need some expert domain knowledge and is knowledge which hasn't really changed that much the last 20 years. SVM's were invented in the 90s. Linear algebra some time before that. The rest is industry or postdoc stuff.

I get the "teaching" part but if you are "teaching" a room of 50 student's it isn't really that different from watching a youtube video for them.

Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by Beldin on Friday December 04, 2020 @07:39AM (#25301591)
As an assistant prof in CS:

- books can partially teach you the "how" and also partially the "why".

- at university, you are being taught how to teach yourself, not necessarily how to perform practical things. Age of the exercise is therefore less relevant.

- ideally, teaching a room full of 50 students is easy better than an online class with 50, which easily should beat a video. Not all classes are like this which is a shame.

Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by stevegalla on Friday December 04, 2020 @02:48PM (#25306844)
What is really meant by “being taught how to teach yourself” or “learning to learn”?

Why does this have to be done in a university setting? Is this explicitly conveyed or is this an outcome of going through classes and it’s what it takes to succeed?

Personally, when I was studying at a pretty strong university in terms of global rankings, I didn’t really “learn to learn” from the classes. The most helpful to me was Cal Newport’s blog (from his grad student days), Stack Overflow and Stack Exchange soft questions, hn discussions about learning and studying, and office hours when I explicitly asked Profs how they study, learn, and solve problems.

When I took what I learned from those sources and stopped going to class to instead work through the textbook/course material at my own pace, my grades improved significantly. If I am able to get an “A” without going to class, does that mean the Prof / university successfully taught me the material or whatever lesson(s) were to be learned?

Sorry for the rant, but I feel the default shouldn’t be to go through higher education to learn to learn. (I’m not saying you are saying that.) So, how can these lessons be made available more widely available?

Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by Orthw2020 on Friday December 04, 2020 @08:05AM (#25301798)
> ...at university, you are being taught how to teach yourself, not necessarily how to perform practical things.

vs getting a self-taught junior role early and not being $100k in debt?

Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by Beldin on Friday December 04, 2020 @09:30AM (#25302549)
$100k in debt may be typical for the US. In several countries in the EU, you'd pay much, much less.
Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by pb7 on Friday December 04, 2020 @11:25AM (#25304129)
It is not typical for the US either. Average is something like $30K. It's a lot but it's not $100K.
Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by colejohnson66 on Friday December 04, 2020 @12:42PM (#25305339)
Where are people going to college (in the US) for $30k after 4 years (community colleges excluded)?
Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by pb7 on Friday December 04, 2020 @12:48PM (#25305412)
Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by vonmoltke on Friday December 04, 2020 @02:46PM (#25306814)
Very few students borrow, or at least need to borrow, 100% of the cost of attendance.
Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by scarface74 on Friday December 04, 2020 @07:43PM (#25310393)
Most people don’t spend tens of thousands of dollars on education to be better citizen of the world. They want to support their habit of needing food and shelter.
Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by username90 on Friday December 04, 2020 @07:36AM (#25301568)
You need positive teaching and negative teaching. Positive teaches how, negative teaches how not to. Without negative teaching people will accumulate a lot of bad or right out wrong beliefs and patterns as they study. A book cannot provide negative teaching, it can only teach you how to do things.
Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by freedomben on Friday December 04, 2020 @07:52AM (#25301694)
I would humbly submit that you aren't using very good books. I read all my text books during my CS degree, and there was plenty of negative teaching in there. A well written book or tutorial covers common pitfalls and equips you to recognize bad as well as good.

I do think there is a ton of value in getting feedback from a professor or colleague, but you can get pretty far with a book.

Re:Big Tech is getting cozy with computer science departments by colejohnson66 on Friday December 04, 2020 @12:44PM (#25305371)
I’m reminded of Ben Eater’s tutorials on YouTube. Even though he knows what he’s writing won’t work, he writes the naive form and acts confused when it doesn’t work. Then he explains why it didn’t work. Compare that to basically every tutorial that just says “do this” without explaining why.