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Re:Mushrooms Can Eat Plastic, Petroleum and CO2 (2018) by contingencies on Thursday December 03, 2020 @07:11AM (#25288095)
Point A: Biostarch PLA wastes huge amounts of energy to convert biodegradeable starch in to nominally biodegradeable PLA. It would be better for everyone to (1) move to non single use plastics; or (2) recycle plastic (very problematic and rarely economical); instead of (3) wasting the energy and CO2 to fabricate biostarch PLA just for the option of throwing it away carelessly.

Point B: As I have spent months of time on thermoforming research (just visited 9 machine manufacturers last week and am currently buying a line to produce permanent parts) I will try to raise a few points as to why this plan might also be difficult technically. Many parts are custom produced for specific use cases. Moulds degrade over time and may not produce the same caliber of part early, middle and late run. Some people require different polymers for valid engineering reasons (optical, thermal or structural properties, joining/printing/other post-process compatibility, etc.) Say you have a mould and you use virgin material versus some other material. Polymer selection affects all properties. Thickness affects thermal characteristics and structural properties. Equipment and ambient environment state including thermals, air particulates and humidity, mould state, die state, air pressure, configured cycle time, coolant circuit state, type and care of handling after forming. However, the kicker is food safety (a legal requirement in most markets) - rarely guaranteed outside of purely virgin material (there are exceptions: I believe there is a UK recycler that does it) and food safe material is the dominant single use plastics market.

Re:Mushrooms Can Eat Plastic, Petroleum and CO2 (2018) by oblio on Thursday December 03, 2020 @07:56AM (#25288365)
I know my plan doesn't cover everything and there are a lot of exceptions.

But if we don't want to destroy the planet, we have to do something like it. Everyone thinks they're special. Why does Coca Cola have a different bottle shape compared to Pepsi or to Fanta? That makes no sense.

We should turn the approach on its head with what is a dangerous material: you should have to prove that what you're doing deserves being made. Have you thought about the consequences of your actions when this product is mass produced, 30 years from now? I doubt many have.

The standard catalog could have more axes, such as different material types, mine was just an example.

Get 10 world famous materials engineers and have them come out with a catalog that covers the most widespread uses.

This doesn't need to be a 100% solution, it needs to cover, say, 95%. The rest of the 5% could be treated as exceptions and you'd have to get a license. Yes, some creativity would be lost. But you could for example, exempt some smaller producers (if your factory makes fewer than 10k units per year, in total, no need for approval, just show us the proof that you're only going to produce that much).

But again, plastics have proven to be dangerous materials, in an insidious way. They're not explosives but they do a lot of damage.

Re:Mushrooms Can Eat Plastic, Petroleum and CO2 (2018) by contingencies on Thursday December 03, 2020 @08:30AM (#25288602)
Regulation can help. If we regulate though, perhaps we should ban the CPG industry as it stands. Look for example at how Australia has forced cigarettes to be sold in blank packages. Remove the marketing element from packaging, and have the supply chain utilize larger, shared, reuseable storage containers for larger quantities of currently individually packaged items. Force the collection of goods in customer-owned reusable packages. Many places already do it at the level of banning or charging for plastic bags and banning low grade/thin/single use plastic bags. We should apply the same thinking to single use packaging in general and request that people BYO packaging for all bulk items.

ie. Don't just remove custom plastics, or move to the lesser option of recycling, rather remove the vast majority of single use plastics in the consumer supply chain and simultaneously reduce the effect of retail packaging advertising on consumer behavior to force a real change.

PS. I don't think a courageous change on this level is ever likely to occur in the west (well, perhaps Europe?). I think it is far more likely to occur in China.

Re:Mushrooms Can Eat Plastic, Petroleum and CO2 (2018) by contingencies on Thursday December 03, 2020 @06:44PM (#25297073)
I slept on this and it occurred to me that this is exactly how markets in Asia traditionally operate. Some of them still operate like that. However, they are being rapidly destroyed by the combination the supermarket chains, and the automobile culture/parking lot nightmare they engender, and convenience stores, which encourage unhealthy snacking in lieu of real ingredient purchase and preparation, and small quantity purchasing (such as single use plastic wrapped shampoo and soap sachets).
Re:Mushrooms Can Eat Plastic, Petroleum and CO2 (2018) by sul_tasto on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:41AM (#25289245)
I think you’re spot on. The simplicity of your solution suggests, though, that the root of problem isn’t knowing what to do.
Re:Mushrooms Can Eat Plastic, Petroleum and CO2 (2018) by oblio on Thursday December 03, 2020 @09:44AM (#25289282)
Well, my last paragraph was:

> However, this plan would also reduce plastic consumption (and production, so $$$) by orders of magnitude, so I don't expect it to ever pass a solid lobbying plan.

That's why we're being buried in trash, because people are making money from that trash.

Re:Mushrooms Can Eat Plastic, Petroleum and CO2 (2018) by contingencies on Friday December 04, 2020 @07:25PM (#25310271)
Plastic is effective and cheaper than other solutions. It is lighter, generally efficiently stackable, and easier to ship. The plastic waste problem is therefore less a grand moneymaking conspiracy and more about cost savings for businesses and consumers which, under a traditional capitalist model, do not account for the 'tragedy of the commons' - ie. completely ignore environmental or social concerns except in cases of post-facto regulatory action.